MORE EXPLOSIONS IN LONDON- 07/21 - Page 8 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #71 of 105 (permalink) Old 07-23-2005, 04:47 PM
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RE: MORE EXPLOSIONS IN LONDON- 07/21

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Botnst - 7/23/2005 6:45 PM

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azimuth - 7/23/2005 6:42 PM

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jjl - 7/23/2005 6:37 PM

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azimuth - 7/24/2005 11:35 PM

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Zeitgeist - 7/23/2005 1:36 PM

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azimuth - 7/23/2005 10:15 AM

Is it OK to kill another human and later analyze the action if that other human is trying to kill you or other innocent people for whom you are professionally responsible?
It's never "OK" to kill another human, though the act may be justified by dire circumstances. What I find most contemptible are the exclamations of glee at the demise of another human, no matter their laundry list of alleged crimes and misdemeanors. When we promote language that dehumanizes these people, we sink closer to their level of inhuman behavior.
Interesting. How does one apply humanity to one who wantonly extinguishes life?
I think the idea is that we show them how compassionate and civilised we are.
can't think of a way to do that and not make of ourselves easy targets.
We could start by learning to sing Kumbaya in Arabic whilst bagging our wives in blue as back-up (of course) singers.

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post #72 of 105 (permalink) Old 07-23-2005, 04:49 PM
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RE: MORE EXPLOSIONS IN LONDON- 07/21

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tcp_ML500 - 7/23/2005 6:44 PM

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azimuth - 7/23/2005 5:35 PM
How does one apply humanity to one who wantonly extinguishes life?
5 times, in the head. That's humane enough, isn't it?
humanely, he prolly only felt the first one.

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post #73 of 105 (permalink) Old 07-23-2005, 04:49 PM
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RE: MORE EXPLOSIONS IN LONDON- 07/21

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azimuth - 7/23/2005 5:47 PM
don't forget the clitorectomies
I was waiting for someone to bring up Bil Cliton

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post #74 of 105 (permalink) Old 07-23-2005, 04:51 PM
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RE: MORE EXPLOSIONS IN LONDON- 07/21

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deathrattle - 7/24/2005 11:45 PM

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Botnst - 7/24/2005 11:28 PM

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deathrattle - 7/23/2005 6:21 PM


The guy into whose head the murdering trigger happy swine put five rounds turns out to be a Brazilian citizen.It seems likely that he was unaware that his pursuers were police since they were not uniformed and probably possessed only rudimentary communication skills.He probably didn't realise that wearing an anorak in the summer in Britain is a capital offense punishable by summary execution.
Our courts are currently deliberating a case where armed police murdered a man for carrying a table leg in a carrier bag which they had 'reason to believe was a loaded firearm'
If one were to add up the beatings,shootings,deaths in custody and impact by police pursuit vehicles, the average citizen is more likely to be injured by the boys in blue than an occaisional bungling terrorist.Sad but true.

Golly, that is tragic.

What a freaking mess. They're looking for guys with loads of high explosives that if detonated, would suicidally kill everybody within several feet, if not several yards. What are they supposed to do, tackle a suspected mad bomber and risk getting blown to bits theselves? Terrible paradox. Would you ask a man to risk his life like that? I don't know.

Poor Brazilian s.o.b. Wrong place at the wrong time and he dies. There is no consolation for his family. Hope they get some compensation.

B
Bot,
I'm not suggesting for a moment that it is an easy situation to deal with,but as this topic will bear out,as soon as i heard about this shooting,from experience, i anticipated a cock-up.The aspect with which i really have a problem is that the guy was already on the floor and restrained by 2 or 3 officers before the weapon was discharged.If in fact he was concealing explosives, would this action have prevented detonation?-i'm sceptical.The forthcoming cover up will no doubt refute my argument,so at least i can remain cynical.

They might have some trouble whitewashing this one; I suspect the officers concerned will be thrown to the wolves. But what am I saying - Lord Hutton, step forward!
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post #75 of 105 (permalink) Old 07-23-2005, 04:51 PM
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RE: MORE EXPLOSIONS IN LONDON- 07/21



I imagine Met. Police Commissioner Ian Blair will sadly have his Potugese phrase book out tonight.To any Brazilians in BW,my sincere condolences.

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post #76 of 105 (permalink) Old 07-23-2005, 04:51 PM
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RE: MORE EXPLOSIONS IN LONDON- 07/21

Quote:
deathrattle - 7/23/2005 6:45 PM

Quote:
Botnst - 7/24/2005 11:28 PM

Quote:
deathrattle - 7/23/2005 6:21 PM


The guy into whose head the murdering trigger happy swine put five rounds turns out to be a Brazilian citizen.It seems likely that he was unaware that his pursuers were police since they were not uniformed and probably possessed only rudimentary communication skills.He probably didn't realise that wearing an anorak in the summer in Britain is a capital offense punishable by summary execution.
Our courts are currently deliberating a case where armed police murdered a man for carrying a table leg in a carrier bag which they had 'reason to believe was a loaded firearm'
If one were to add up the beatings,shootings,deaths in custody and impact by police pursuit vehicles, the average citizen is more likely to be injured by the boys in blue than an occaisional bungling terrorist.Sad but true.

Golly, that is tragic.

What a freaking mess. They're looking for guys with loads of high explosives that if detonated, would suicidally kill everybody within several feet, if not several yards. What are they supposed to do, tackle a suspected mad bomber and risk getting blown to bits theselves? Terrible paradox. Would you ask a man to risk his life like that? I don't know.

Poor Brazilian s.o.b. Wrong place at the wrong time and he dies. There is no consolation for his family. Hope they get some compensation.

B
Bot,
I'm not suggesting for a moment that it is an easy situation to deal with,but as this topic will bear out,as soon as i heard about this shooting,from experience, i anticipated a cock-up.The aspect with which i really have a problem is that the guy was already on the floor and restrained by 2 or 3 officers before the weapon was discharged.If in fact he was concealing explosives, would this action have prevented detonation?-i'm sceptical.The forthcoming cover up will no doubt refute my argument,so at least i can remain cynical.

You know the situation far better than I do (thank goodness) and I didn't mean to sound argumentative toward you. I guess I was mentally wringing my hands at the tragedy of the damned situation. Police are much the same type of person worldwide--Mother Teresa they ain't. That is not an excuse. It is a reason to restrain them as much as possible while giving them sufficient power to keep the wolves at bay. It is never going to have a perfect solution.

I can only imagine the fear the cops felt approaching a man who may have been loaded with explosives. I'm amazed they don't piss themselves. Most men would.

Bot
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post #77 of 105 (permalink) Old 07-23-2005, 05:00 PM Thread Starter
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RE: MORE EXPLOSIONS IN LONDON- 07/21

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azimuth - 7/23/2005 1:15 PM

Quote:
Zeitgeist - 7/23/2005 1:07 PM

...boy, the most manly thing I can imagine would be to use the web to pontificate endlessly about my morbid fascination with the hunting down and killing other humans--an admirable trait I'd surely want to pass onto my kids.
Is it OK to kill another human and later analyze the action if that other human is trying to kill you or other innocent people for whom you are professionally responsible?
So those that mean if i invite you and you bring your kid and wife i get to kill them because I got frightened. By all means I never mean some thing like that to anyone I pray to my god that we all never experience a trauma of any type and harm of any time to our loved ones.
Owning a gun is a responsibility of using it .

If its that easy to shoot and kill people. I shall start shooting everyone who comes in where I work because you don't know who is who?

Btw funny my grandmother is a really old lady with a really huge house its sad that some times when we visited her you would see people stroll thru the garden as if it were theirs .I once walked up to a this guy wished him hello and asked him who are you ? He turned around and asked me who the fuck I am ...I really wanted to let him have it I could have! But I didn’t its your responsibility to not kill some one or beat some one if you walk into my house I guarantee I will not shoot you even if your were a thief because I value your life more that mine and material gains can be replaced with new better ones you cannot replace life or make that broken hand 100%.

Not all people know how to act with police you have to grant that I had some guy sitting with me in my car once when I got stopped at 11 in night and this guy literally got into a fit shouting, putting his hands on his face and ears opening the dash compartment and opening the door. Made me feel like shit cause I thought the cop is going to shoot me. Well at least this happened before sep11. This guy was Indian and thought the police is
going to arrest him.
My father got out and argued with a cop 2 months a go when I got a ticket.
Pls be careful whom you sit with and who sits with you. (Bad experience)

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post #78 of 105 (permalink) Old 07-23-2005, 05:07 PM
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RE: MORE EXPLOSIONS IN LONDON- 07/21

^^^Reply to Bot-not Dementia possessed.

I think a great deal of the problem lies with this reactionary government's pressure on the police to give the impression of being in control,the motivation being purely political.This is affecting the way our police operate all the way up from harassing kids for wearing hoodies to trying to catch terrorists.Tony Bliar has realised that if he creates fear and appears to deal with it,in the short term it strengthens his personal position,which he clearly demonstrates is his main concern.

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post #79 of 105 (permalink) Old 07-23-2005, 05:15 PM
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RE: MORE EXPLOSIONS IN LONDON- 07/21

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deathrattle - 7/24/2005 12:07 AM

^^^Reply to Bot-not Dementia possessed.

I think a great deal of the problem lies with this reactionary government's pressure on the police to give the impression of being in control,the motivation being purely political.This is affecting the way our police operate all the way up from harassing kids for wearing hoodies to trying to catch terrorists.Tony Bliar has realised that if he creates fear and appears to deal with it,in the short term it strengthens his personal position,which he clearly demonstrates is his main concern.
This is the truth.
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post #80 of 105 (permalink) Old 07-23-2005, 05:21 PM
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RE: MORE EXPLOSIONS IN LONDON- 07/21

Quote:
Demon_possessed - 7/23/2005 7:00 PM

Quote:
azimuth - 7/23/2005 1:15 PM

Quote:
Zeitgeist - 7/23/2005 1:07 PM

...boy, the most manly thing I can imagine would be to use the web to pontificate endlessly about my morbid fascination with the hunting down and killing other humans--an admirable trait I'd surely want to pass onto my kids.
Is it OK to kill another human and later analyze the action if that other human is trying to kill you or other innocent people for whom you are professionally responsible?
So those that mean if i invite you and you bring your kid and wife i get to kill them because I got frightened. By all means I never mean some thing like that to anyone I pray to my god that we all never experience a trauma of any type and harm of any time to our loved ones.
Owning a gun is a responsibility of using it .

If its that easy to shoot and kill people. I shall start shooting everyone who comes in where I work because you don't know who is who?

Btw funny my grandmother is a really old lady with a really huge house its sad that some times when we visited her you would see people stroll thru the garden as if it were theirs .I once walked up to a this guy wished him hello and asked him who are you ? He turned around and asked me who the fuck I am ...I really wanted to let him have it I could have! But I didn’t its your responsibility to not kill some one or beat some one if you walk into my house I guarantee I will not shoot you even if your were a thief because I value your life more that mine and material gains can be replaced with new better ones you cannot replace life or make that broken hand 100%.

Not all people know how to act with police you have to grant that I had some guy sitting with me in my car once when I got stopped at 11 in night and this guy literally got into a fit shouting, putting his hands on his face and ears opening the dash compartment and opening the door. Made me feel like shit cause I thought the cop is going to shoot me. Well at least this happened before sep11. This guy was Indian and thought the police is
going to arrest him.
My father got out and argued with a cop 2 months a go when I got a ticket.
Pls be careful whom you sit with and who sits with you. (Bad experience)

Demon_possessed
[}:)][}:)][}:)]
Discernment of intent would be the fundamental here. I trust that I can discern when an individual is a threat to the level where leathal force is right and justified.

perhaps a quote from a well regarded individual is appropriate: "Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife." Oliver Wendell Holmes, Chief Justice, US Supreme Court, 1902-1932

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