MORE EXPLOSIONS IN LONDON- 07/21 - Page 5 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #41 of 105 (permalink) Old 07-23-2005, 11:07 AM
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RE: MORE EXPLOSIONS IN LONDON- 07/21

...boy, the most manly thing I can imagine would be to use the web to pontificate endlessly about my morbid fascination with the hunting down and killing other humans--an admirable trait I'd surely want to pass onto my kids.
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post #42 of 105 (permalink) Old 07-23-2005, 11:15 AM
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RE: MORE EXPLOSIONS IN LONDON- 07/21

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Zeitgeist - 7/23/2005 1:07 PM

...boy, the most manly thing I can imagine would be to use the web to pontificate endlessly about my morbid fascination with the hunting down and killing other humans--an admirable trait I'd surely want to pass onto my kids.
Is it OK to kill another human and later analyze the action if that other human is trying to kill you or other innocent people for whom you are professionally responsible?

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post #43 of 105 (permalink) Old 07-23-2005, 11:32 AM
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RE: MORE EXPLOSIONS IN LONDON- 07/21

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Zeitgeist - 7/23/2005 6:07 PM

...boy, the most manly thing I can imagine would be to use the web to pontificate endlessly about my morbid fascination with the hunting down and killing other humans--an admirable trait I'd surely want to pass onto my kids.

The latest news is that the man shot on the train was innocent and unconnected with the bombings. What a huge mistake - though one has to wonder why he was foolish enough to run from armed police in those circumstances.
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post #44 of 105 (permalink) Old 07-23-2005, 11:36 AM
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RE: MORE EXPLOSIONS IN LONDON- 07/21

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Is it OK to kill another human and later analyze the action if that other human is trying to kill you or other innocent people for whom you are professionally responsible?
It's never "OK" to kill another human, though the act may be justified by dire circumstances. What I find most contemptible are the exclamations of glee at the demise of another human, no matter their laundry list of alleged crimes and misdemeanors. When we promote language that dehumanizes these people, we sink closer to their level of inhuman behavior.
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post #45 of 105 (permalink) Old 07-23-2005, 11:44 AM
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RE: MORE EXPLOSIONS IN LONDON- 07/21

Shot man was not bomber - police

Jon Dennis
Saturday July 23, 2005

The man shot dead in Stockwell tube station yesterday was not connected to the attempted bombings of London on July 21, police said tonight.

Police said the shooting was a "tragedy" and they expressed "regret".

In a statement, the Metropolitan police said: "We believe we now know the identity of the man shot at Stockwell underground station by police on Friday July 22 2005, although he is still subject to formal identification.

"We are now satisfied that he was not connected with the incidents of Thursday July 21 2005.

"For somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one that the Metropolitan Police Service regrets.

"The man emerged from a block of flats in the Stockwell area that were under police surveillance as part of the investigation into the incidents on Thursday July 21.

"He was then followed by surveillance officers to the underground station. His clothing and behaviour added to their suspicions."

Scotland Yard said the circumstances of the man's death were being investigated by the Met's directorate of professional standards, and will be referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission.

The fatal shooting at Stockwell happened at 10am yesterday when armed plain clothes police officers shot a man as he tried to board a train at the underground station.

The Asian man then bolted down an escalator and tried to get on a train before he was, according to witnesses, shot five times in the head by an officer with an automatic pistol.

Train passenger Mark Whitby said: "As the man got on the train I looked at his face. He looked from left to right, but he basically looked like a cornered rabbit, like a cornered fox. He looked absolutely petrified.

"He sort of tripped but they were hotly pursuing him and couldn't have been more than two or three feet behind him at this time.

"They unloaded five shots into him. I saw it. He's dead, five shots, he's dead."

The Metropolitan police commissioner, Sir Ian Blair, claimed yesterday that the shooting was "directly linked" to anti-terror operations.

'No one should rush to judgment'

The Muslim Council of Britain tonight "expressed its deepest condolences to the family of the innocent man".

"While we accept that the police are under tremendous pressure to apprehend the criminals who are attempting to cause carnage on the streets of London, it is absolutely vital that utmost care is taken to ensure that innocent people are not killed due to over-zealousness," said Sir Iqbal Sacranie, the council's secretary-general.

The council said it had "received numerous calls from distressed British Muslims" since yesterday's shooting.

The human rights organisation Liberty said no one should "rush to judgment"

Liberty's director Shami Chakrabarti said: "Our hearts go out to the family of the dead man and to the officers involved in this tragic incident ... These are knife-edge split second decisions made in moments of grave danger. We have a massive shared interest in the protection of innocent lives."

Glen Smyth, chairman of the Metropolitan Police Federation, which represents rank-and-file officers in the capital, said: "It would be unwise to speculate on all the circumstances until we know what happened. Police officers in these circumstances are expected to make split second decisions that have lifelong consequences."

Downing Street confirmed that Tony Blair had been informed of the latest development but made no further comment.

"The prime minister is kept updated with every development in relation to this investigation," a No 10 spokeswoman said.

The Home Office did not want to comment on the shooting. "It's an operational matter for the police," said a spokeswoman.
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post #46 of 105 (permalink) Old 07-23-2005, 12:02 PM
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RE: MORE EXPLOSIONS IN LONDON- 07/21

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Zeitgeist - 7/23/2005 6:36 PM

Quote:
azimuth - 7/23/2005 10:15 AM

Is it OK to kill another human and later analyze the action if that other human is trying to kill you or other innocent people for whom you are professionally responsible?
It's never "OK" to kill another human, though the act may be justified by dire circumstances. What I find most contemptible are the exclamations of glee at the demise of another human, no matter their laundry list of alleged crimes and misdemeanors. When we promote language that dehumanizes these people, we sink closer to their level of inhuman behavior.
I have a lot of sympathy with that view. On the other hand, one might argue that those who execute inhuman acts have dehumanised themselves. Would I be 'happy', when presented with a choice of fifty dead communters or one dead suicide bomber that the latter happened? Yes. What is wrong with me?
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post #47 of 105 (permalink) Old 07-23-2005, 12:02 PM
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RE: MORE EXPLOSIONS IN LONDON- 07/21

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Zeitgeist - 7/23/2005 12:44 PM
"The prime minister is kept updated with every development in relation to this investigation," a No 10 spokeswoman said.
Looks like there will be a new number 2.

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post #48 of 105 (permalink) Old 07-23-2005, 12:27 PM
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RE: MORE EXPLOSIONS IN LONDON- 07/21

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jjl - 7/23/2005 11:02 AM

I have a lot of sympathy with that view. On the other hand, one might argue that those who execute inhuman acts have dehumanised themselves. Would I be 'happy', when presented with a choice of fifty dead communters or one dead suicide bomber that the latter happened? Yes. What is wrong with me?
I am not a therapist, nor do I represent one on this board, so I can't offer any help. I personally would choose to represent my feelings differently if presented with such circumstances, though I'd surely make the same choice.
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post #49 of 105 (permalink) Old 07-23-2005, 12:58 PM
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RE: MORE EXPLOSIONS IN LONDON- 07/21

Oh, what a bad thing, to teach kids that it is a good and noble thing to stand-up to terrorists.

The world would be so much better if we could just embrace the hurt that the terrorists must feel inside. If we would only vizualize world peace, our warm, loving vibes would infect the people who so misguidedly want to do harm to other people. Think of the oppression they must feel from the evil western democracies, pushing the impoverished midevalists to abandon their ancient traditions of protecting their women from teh evils of eductaion and their children from modernity. How can anybody blame them for wanting to lash out?

But if we can understand their pain, I know that they'll stop.

Feel the love.

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post #50 of 105 (permalink) Old 07-23-2005, 01:21 PM
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RE: MORE EXPLOSIONS IN LONDON- 07/21

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Zeitgeist - 7/24/2005 7:27 PM

Quote:
jjl - 7/23/2005 11:02 AM

I have a lot of sympathy with that view. On the other hand, one might argue that those who execute inhuman acts have dehumanised themselves. Would I be 'happy', when presented with a choice of fifty dead communters or one dead suicide bomber that the latter happened? Yes. What is wrong with me?
I am not a therapist, nor do I represent one on this board, so I can't offer any help. I personally would choose to represent my feelings differently if presented with such circumstances, though I'd surely make the same choice.
You're right, of course, 'happy' is the wrong word. Oh well, I never was much good at self-expression.

I expect how much one cares about a dead suicide bomber depends on whether or not you think their free-will and so their personal responsibility has been removed by other factors. It's really those 'other factors' that need to be dealt with. The bombers are merely the fruiting bodies of a much more insidious rot.


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