Robschaef - 6/28/2005 2:41 PM
It boggles the mind to think that your opinion is that they were just following orders. Puzzling to say the least.
... is how you read that in my post. Maybe you should put as much thought when you read as you do when you write, you might avoid confusing yourself!
By saying that this was their official line and excuse for committing attrocities, it imply that I support it these claims as factual. A reporter wirting a story about a genocidal episode in Rwanda is not necessarily on the side of the perpetrator (or is he?). Pointing out that such was their defense and that they portrayed themselves as mere book keepers does not make me endorse their arguments. What I am doing is putting forth what the accused have said at Nuremberg and other places.
Mind you, some of my family members have been helped by good people, in Germany, and in France. Others have been ratted, by Nazis in one country and collaborators in the other, 2 were even refused entry in Switzerland (even though they were swiss citizens) and handed to the German authorities, then deported to the camps.
Further, my sarcastic remark about the sudden disappearance of all Nazis in Germany on the eve of defeat should have hinted you on that path to discovery, Shabah did not miss it!
I value your contributions, I think you are an intelligent person, I really do, but I do not understand how you could have read me so wrong!
Now, if you would please explain plainly how kv "devalues these titles". Did he endorse and minimize their activity? I think he might have overvalued what he was comparing them to, and I trust you will understand the difference is not just one of semantics. The horrors of the camps (that you have visited) can never be minimized, the guilt of anyone involved cannot be minimized. I blame the regime, I blame the guards, I blame the civilian populations, especially in Poland, who rejoiced and not only did not help, but accused and reported, sometime falsely for ulterior motives, to the authorities. I blame the Catholic church for not getting involved, or worse, looking the other way. I do not, however, hold the descendants of these as responsible for actions perpetrated by their ancestors. I do continue to hate the >20% of ultra nationalists in western Europe who continually desecrate Jewsih cemetaries, revive the hatred against my people. I particularily have harsh comments for the 85% poles who continue to subscribe to anti-semitic thesis.
Yet, it is minimized everyday! Do my statements appear contradictory? They kinda are. To the intelligent, yearning to learn and understand, no minimization. To the idiot, revisionism has a lot of appeal, and justification to spread the hate further. Same antagonism that has always existed.
When you say that kvining is not required to apologize, would you elaborate and tell us what that would him if he did not (please use your own post to illustrate). Would you also tell us by whose standard he would become what you might say he might become should he fail to apologize? When you say "we will see", is that a matter of style? Do you imply that "we" equates to "all of us members", and thus, that we should all agree with your assessment, lest we be judged by the same criteria you judged kvining?