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post #121 of 142 (permalink) Old 09-20-2005, 07:48 PM
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RE: let's try to find one GOOD thing W has accomplished

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click430 - 9/20/2005 6:39 PM

Liberals believe in equality at the expense of liberty.
Conservatives believe in liberty at the expense of equality. I'm somewhere in the middle, being miserable watching the fractured media moving towards ever more polarized positions, and taking their willing listeners with them. I believe that it's the reason for the lessening of manners, culture and civility in my country. We listen to what we want to hear, and that will always widen the gulf between us.
So you're referring to the current administration as liberal -- I agree. They are fiscal liberals and they have consistently attempted and succeeded to relieve Americans of personal liberties.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #122 of 142 (permalink) Old 09-20-2005, 07:58 PM
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RE: let's try to find one GOOD thing W has accomplished

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GermanStar - 9/20/2005 8:48 PM

Quote:
click430 - 9/20/2005 6:39 PM

Liberals believe in equality at the expense of liberty.
Conservatives believe in liberty at the expense of equality. I'm somewhere in the middle, being miserable watching the fractured media moving towards ever more polarized positions, and taking their willing listeners with them. I believe that it's the reason for the lessening of manners, culture and civility in my country. We listen to what we want to hear, and that will always widen the gulf between us.
So you're referring to the current administration as liberal -- I agree. They are fiscal liberals and they have consistently attempted and succeeded to relieve Americans of personal liberties.
No I wasn't talking about any administration... I was speaking about personal truths.
But, if you want to couch my idea in something you can deal with, great.
In fact, thanks for helping me make my point.
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post #123 of 142 (permalink) Old 09-20-2005, 08:00 PM
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RE: let's try to find one GOOD thing W has accomplished

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GermanStar - 9/20/2005 8:44 PM

Quote:
click430 - 9/20/2005 6:38 PM

Oh, yeah.. Free from having a government tell you how to treat women. that's better, right?
They're aren't really free until they're free of us, dontcha think?
Now that is a truth... and the sooner the better.
Drop the Freedom bomb and run like hell. I just hope they can handel it.....
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post #124 of 142 (permalink) Old 09-20-2005, 08:16 PM
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RE: let's try to find one GOOD thing W has accomplished

Quote:
click430 - 9/20/2005 6:58 PM

Quote:
GermanStar - 9/20/2005 8:48 PM

Quote:
click430 - 9/20/2005 6:39 PM

Liberals believe in equality at the expense of liberty.
Conservatives believe in liberty at the expense of equality. I'm somewhere in the middle, being miserable watching the fractured media moving towards ever more polarized positions, and taking their willing listeners with them. I believe that it's the reason for the lessening of manners, culture and civility in my country. We listen to what we want to hear, and that will always widen the gulf between us.
So you're referring to the current administration as liberal -- I agree. They are fiscal liberals and they have consistently attempted and succeeded to relieve Americans of personal liberties.
No I wasn't talking about any administration... I was speaking about personal truths.
But, if you want to couch my idea in something you can deal with, great.
In fact, thanks for helping me make my point.
Simply applying your criteria to the situation at hand. I am a fiscal conservative and I know the difference. It amazes me that the conservative media portrays the current administration as one thing, while they act like quite another. I find it even more amazing how many people choose to believe what they hear, rather than what they see. I do admit that my lack of bias flew out the window as soon it became obvious that the Bush administration had some personal agenda in regard to Iraq (well before the actual invasion). And make no mistake, it's all about Iraq.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #125 of 142 (permalink) Old 09-20-2005, 08:23 PM
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RE: let's try to find one GOOD thing W has accomplished

Quote:
GermanStar - 9/20/2005 9:16 PM

Quote:
click430 - 9/20/2005 6:58 PM

Quote:
GermanStar - 9/20/2005 8:48 PM

Quote:
click430 - 9/20/2005 6:39 PM

Liberals believe in equality at the expense of liberty.
Conservatives believe in liberty at the expense of equality. I'm somewhere in the middle, being miserable watching the fractured media moving towards ever more polarized positions, and taking their willing listeners with them. I believe that it's the reason for the lessening of manners, culture and civility in my country. We listen to what we want to hear, and that will always widen the gulf between us.
So you're referring to the current administration as liberal -- I agree. They are fiscal liberals and they have consistently attempted and succeeded to relieve Americans of personal liberties.
No I wasn't talking about any administration... I was speaking about personal truths.
But, if you want to couch my idea in something you can deal with, great.
In fact, thanks for helping me make my point.
Simply applying your criteria to the situation at hand. I am a fiscal conservative and I know the difference. It amazes me that the conservative media portrays the current administration as one thing, while they act like quite another. I find it even more amazing how many people choose to believe what they hear, rather than what they see. I do admit that my lack of bias flew out the window as soon it became obvious that the Bush administration had some personal agenda in regard to Iraq (well before the actual invasion). And make no mistake, it's all about Iraq.
What personal agenda do you refer to?
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post #126 of 142 (permalink) Old 09-20-2005, 08:34 PM
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RE: let's try to find one GOOD thing W has accomplished

Quote:
click430 - 9/20/2005 7:23 PM

What personal agenda do you refer to?
That has never been made clear. I do find it rather obvious that the decision to invade was made long before pertinent facts were gathered. In fact, the administration was only interested in facts that would support their predisposed stance. As an example, the administration rewarded Iraqi expatriates who were willing to provide "information" that supported that stance. Those who provided the truth were not rewarded. The administration's hostility and/or ambivalence toward the weapons inspectors was another example. One can only speculate in regard to the administration's reasons...

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #127 of 142 (permalink) Old 09-20-2005, 08:41 PM
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RE: let's try to find one GOOD thing W has accomplished

Quote:
tcp_ML500 - 9/20/2005 5:02 PM

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DARKTECH - 9/20/2005 2:32 PM
What do you propose the government do bring everyone out of poverty write them a check for 100,000 dollars a year?
If that is the extent of what you people can think of to help the poor, it comes to know surprise that the gap between have and have nots is widening!

Quote:
DARKTECH - 9/20/2005 2:32 PM
What have you done to help the poor?
Is that curiosisty on your part?

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DARKTECH - 9/20/2005 2:32 PM
I have donated labor and supplies for installing roofing on over 40 HABITAT houses in the last 7 years.
Or, in the light of this last quote, was it an insinuation that you have the certainty that you have done more than I?

Quote:
DARKTECH - 9/20/2005 2:32 PM
I also know that everyone dropped the ball after the storm and I blame the government in this order 1st the mayor then the governor then the president they are all the blame.
If there is any good to come out of blaming these officials, such as better preparedness and response next time around, then blame all you want. Otherwise, this list is too ridiculously short.

In my view, we all share responsibility in the extent of the physical and psychological damage experienced by those who did not have the opportunity to leave N.O.

Some have argues here that there were people who willignly put themselves at risk. Maybe so, I'd be willing to bet that they were the minority of those who stayed.

Some laugh at the racial argument. Maybe because it was not brought on very intelligently. The extent of the affliction brought on people (leave property out of the debate) has a direct relationship with class.

No the hurricane did not target black people, but denying that black people have suffered proportionally more (in relative terms brought back in victims per capita, by race) is idiotic. The class issue becomes a race issue when most of the lower class is comprised of one race.

The poor people, withouth enough resource, without mobility, without financial means, were affected more in proportion because they could not leave the area. It so happens that most of the poor in these places were African <b><u>Americans</u></b>.
We all share in the responsibility because we have not done enough to elevate the lower classes to a point that would have made it possible for all those who desired to leave to actually leave!
Past governments are to blame, and voters at large are to blame. We are proud to be <b>American</b>, but no all <b>Americans</b> have access to what you and I have access to. Not by will, not by lack thereof, simply because they have been, in majority, excluded from social progress. It's easy to blame the erosion of the family in the inner cities, the consequences are desastrous, but the focus should be on fighting the cause of that erosion. It's easy to classify people as lazy, but when they do not have access to education and cannot develop skills, what are their chances of being the CEO of their own company? What are the chances of a inner city kid to go to college compared to the odds that a kid in the plush suburbs of <replace with your city> have? Let's not be hypocritical, we are all equal, but some are more equal than others!

We are proud to be <b>American</b>, but pride in what? Society means nothing, advancement means nothing, our status in the world means nothing if all our people are not able to live securely, safely, to have decent medical coverage, the opportunity to learn and earn a living. That does not fly in the face of people living at different status according to their contributions to others, it does mean lifting up the people whoare currently left out.

Quote:
DARKTECH - 9/20/2005 2:32 PM
I even blame the news choppers taking video they could have carried supplies and some water and still get their filming done.
You should have watched more news coverage, some (yep, not all, and not all the time) news choppers helped evacuate, believe it or not!
I think what I find interesting is the fact that there must always be someone to blame. I have lurked in the darkness and watched the left wing extremists trash Bush long enough. I don't like the war in Iraq. I don't like alot of the things he has done, and believe me (you do) he's done some bonehead things as our CIC. But hurricanes?? After all, who really sit on their hands whilst a major hurricane spun towards the coast of Louisiana. George Bush?? That just seems too easy a target, especially for the left wingers who hate the man so passionately that they refuse to check out the real facts before they unload both barrels at him for his "slow response".

I am a respecter of opinions. While I may not agree with what one may say, I think these opinions are, for the most part, a valuable asset to any discussion. When labeling and name calling are involved, then the discussion degresses into a slime pit of hatred that can be compared to racism.

Conservatives did not send the hurricane. Neither did liberals. But when Sen. Landreau threatened to punch our president in the nose because she felt his response was a slow, and purposeful one at that, she stepped over the line. She totally received a dozen eggs on her face when it was revealed that Bush, did indeed, offer early evac help to the wonderful governor of LA and SHE REFUSED IT TWICE!! Furthermore, Bush called together his senior advisors trying to find a way to send in Federal troops to evac the people of N.O. legally into the wee hours of the night prior to the landfall of nature's menace!! It was the slow response from the state level that was responsible for the lack of evacuation of these people. It was only complicated further by the total incompetence of FEMA.

Lessons to be learned from these disasters is to see to it that such a lethargic response is avoided the next time.

As for YOU, Mr. Shane (or is it Mrs.?), purge your heart of the hatred of your fellow man. Democrat or Republican, we are ALL Americans and aside from the occassional disagreements, we should support our government and our leaders in their endeavor to rebuild the great state of LA.

On another note, top ML, hypocrisy is at it's greatest at the charity level. You will find more conservatives are charitable in their help and monetary contributions than are liberals. Another fact that has to SMART![;)]
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post #128 of 142 (permalink) Old 09-20-2005, 09:18 PM
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RE: let's try to find one GOOD thing W has accomplished

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DARKTECH - 9/20/2005 10:41 PM


On another note, top ML, hypocrisy is at it's greatest at the charity level. You will find more conservatives are charitable in their help and monetary contributions than are liberals. Another fact that has to SMART![;)]
I call BULLSHIT! That being said, you provide me with PROOF I will publicly apologize.
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post #129 of 142 (permalink) Old 09-20-2005, 09:23 PM
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RE: let's try to find one GOOD thing W has accomplished

Here's something for charity...

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/september2005/010905redcross.htm
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post #130 of 142 (permalink) Old 09-20-2005, 09:30 PM
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RE: let's try to find one GOOD thing W has accomplished

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LK1 - 9/20/2005 11:18 PM

Quote:
DARKTECH - 9/20/2005 10:41 PM


On another note, top ML, hypocrisy is at it's greatest at the charity level. You will find more conservatives are charitable in their help and monetary contributions than are liberals. Another fact that has to SMART![;)]
I call BULLSHIT! That being said, you provide me with PROOF I will publicly apologize.
Oopsie!
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