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post #31 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-16-2005, 11:14 AM
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RE: EX-Gitmo Prisoners Return to Fight

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mzsmbs - 6/16/2005 9:43 AM

Quote:
Alfa - 6/16/2005 11:36 AM

Good, the world is now giving you/the people of these two countries and many more the power to take control to help themselves to the freedom that so many in the other parts of the world have fought for.
This is their chance now. It is truly great.
that's for sure..

if they want US out i'd think they'd stop fighting to expedite our departure and then start up again, if that's what they want..
I don't think that would be effective. It's published the US is planning to build 14 bases in Iraq -- if the fighting died down, this would give a green light to establishing our military presence solidly, especially from the US population, who react to the blood-letting. No bad news, no need to withdraw.

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post #32 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-16-2005, 11:17 AM
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RE: EX-Gitmo Prisoners Return to Fight

O.K. please explain to this country hick who you think, knows nothing of these people or combat situations, how these people were treated.
And how you suppose they came to be combat detainees.
post #33 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-16-2005, 11:20 AM
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RE: EX-Gitmo Prisoners Return to Fight

Quote:
old300D - 6/16/2005 12:14 PM

Quote:
mzsmbs - 6/16/2005 9:43 AM

Quote:
Alfa - 6/16/2005 11:36 AM

Good, the world is now giving you/the people of these two countries and many more the power to take control to help themselves to the freedom that so many in the other parts of the world have fought for.
This is their chance now. It is truly great.
that's for sure..

if they want US out i'd think they'd stop fighting to expedite our departure and then start up again, if that's what they want..
I don't think that would be effective. It's published the US is planning to build 14 bases in Iraq -- if the fighting died down, this would give a green light to establishing our military presence solidly, especially from the US population, who react to the blood-letting. No bad news, no need to withdraw.
14 bases with American military presence!! That would be horrible to their safety and prosperity. Why, they would be as impoverished and disorganized as...........Germany.[;)]

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post #34 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-16-2005, 11:33 AM
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RE: EX-Gitmo Prisoners Return to Fight

Face it -- I doubt if Bin Laden himself could have imagined the incredible level of success he achieved with the 9/11 attack. Things couldn't be going much better for him if he were actually in the White House calling the shots himself. The U.S. predictably and rightfully attacks Afghanistan, fails to find Bin Laden, then inexplicable goes from world leader to world thug by engaging in an essentially unilateral invasion of a non-combatant sovereign nation in the heart of the Middle East (as Bin Laden predicted), and lo and behold, it happens to be Bin Laden's arch enemy, the infidel dog Saddam, instead of continuing to oppose terrorism and search for Bin Laden. We ignore the wishes of our allies in the area, the wishes of the U.N., and the Geneva convention, distancing ourselves further from the role of world leader.

Once an enemy dictates your behavior, that enemy has won the battle, if not the war. So far, Bin Laden has scored slam dunk after slam dunk.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #35 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-16-2005, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
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RE: EX-Gitmo Prisoners Return to Fight

Quote:
Alfa - 6/16/2005 1:17 PM

O.K. please explain to this country hick who you think, knows nothing of these people or combat situations, how these people were treated.
And how you suppose they came to be combat detainees.
Most of the detainees in Gitmo were apprehended in Afghanistan while the US waged war against the Taliban that was a de facto ruler of that country (they were a bunch of wakos religious zealots so I am not defending them). This was a declared war so that means any prisoner should have fallen under the prisoner of war rules. The US decided in all of its wisdom to bypass that in an attempt to gain leverage through torture and mistreatment. The idea was, if they were protected by the Geneva Convention the US may never gain intelligence on the whereabouts of Ousama Ben Laden and the other clowns. Someone in the executive branch of the US government managed to sell the idea of “enemy combatant� with of course consultation from the Justice Department to basically support the idea so it will never end in the US Supreme Court for a challenge. The time was also ripe to play this trick on the US population since they were fuming from the aftermath of 911. At that time any action by the government was considered the right thing to do because no one dared stand up to the insanity. Some people played the patriotic card whenever someone even attempted to open the can of worms. Liberal and anti American labels abounded in that atmosphere. Not many wanted their political careers smeared for taking up what seemed to be acceptable by then.
Since the detainees were isolated and were unfortunately guarded by people under the influence of false patriotism they ended up being abused. It is that simple. The average Joe in the US is not very sophisticated, he will settle for a two dimensional view of the world. Any further exploration will give him a headache and he would want more beer to drown the “bad thoughts�. So he prefers to drink anyway and leave the thinking to the people that will take care of him when he retires since they are doing such a darn good job.
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post #36 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-16-2005, 11:42 AM
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RE: EX-Gitmo Prisoners Return to Fight

Quote:
Shabah - 6/16/2005 11:40 AM

For Alpha,
Alpha:
I see since I in the minority here it is I who should not post my opinions

mzsmbs:
no, you definately should but you didn't stick with the topic.. you pointed at shabah.. there is a difference

old300D:
No need to be a victim, no one is asking you to withdraw your opinions. But expect to be taken to task when you express them.

Shabah:
Far from it, you are welcome to say whatever you want, that's what makes a case for who is right or wrong or maybe there is no such a paradigm.

You see Alpha, jumping to conclusion to quickly satisfy your misguided anger does not yield a favorable impression upon thyself. You can remedy this by saying something a little more intelligent even if it opposes some views. No need to be afraid, I don’t think we are ganging up on you but if you read each one’s comment they are actually constructive. Ok, so see it your way and come back you hear!
ohhh,



in political asylum
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post #37 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-16-2005, 11:43 AM Thread Starter
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RE: EX-Gitmo Prisoners Return to Fight

Quote:
GermanStar - 6/16/2005 1:33 PM

Face it -- I doubt if Bin Laden himself could have imagined the incredible level of success he achieved with the 9/11 attack. Things couldn't be going much better for him if he were actually in the White House calling the shots himself. The U.S. predictably and rightfully attacks Afghanistan, fails to find Bin Laden, then inexplicable goes from world leader to world thug by engaging in an essentially unilateral invasion of a non-combatant sovereign nation in the heart of the Middle East (as Bin Laden predicted), and lo and behold, it happens to be Bin Laden's arch enemy, the infidel dog Saddam, instead of continuing to oppose terrorism and search for Bin Laden. We ignore the wishes of our allies in the area, the wishes of the U.N., and the Geneva convention, distancing ourselves further from the role of world leader.

Once an enemy dictates your behavior, that enemy has won the battle, if not the war. So far, Bin Laden has scored slam dunk after slam dunk.
Right on the nail, that's exactly what Ben Laden wanted. He is in hiding because he does not need to stick his neck out since the US is in self-destruct mode already.
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post #38 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-16-2005, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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RE: EX-Gitmo Prisoners Return to Fight

Quote:
Shabah - 6/16/2005 1:40 PM

Quote:
Alfa - 6/16/2005 1:17 PM

O.K. please explain to this country hick who you think, knows nothing of these people or combat situations, how these people were treated.
And how you suppose they came to be combat detainees.
Most of the detainees in Gitmo were apprehended in Afghanistan while the US waged war against the Taliban that was a de facto ruler of that country (they were a bunch of wakos religious zealots so I am not defending them). This was a declared war so that means any prisoner should have fallen under the prisoner of war rules. The US decided in all of its wisdom to bypass that in an attempt to gain leverage through torture and mistreatment. The idea was, if they were protected by the Geneva Convention the US may never gain intelligence on the whereabouts of Ousama Ben Laden and the other clowns. Someone in the executive branch of the US government managed to sell the idea of “enemy combatant� with of course consultation from the Justice Department to basically support the idea so it will never end in the US Supreme Court for a challenge. The time was also ripe to play this trick on the US population since they were fuming from the aftermath of 911. At that time any action by the government was considered the right thing to do because no one dared stand up to the insanity. Some people played the patriotic card whenever someone even attempted to open the can of worms. Liberal and anti American labels abounded in that atmosphere. Not many wanted their political careers smeared for taking up what seemed to be acceptable by then.
Since the detainees were isolated and were unfortunately guarded by people under the influence of false patriotism they ended up being abused. It is that simple. The average Joe in the US is not very sophisticated, he will settle for a two dimensional view of the world. Any further exploration will give him a headache and he would want more beer to drown the “bad thoughts�. So he prefers to drink anyway and leave the thinking to the people that will take care of him when he retires since they are doing such a darn good job.
I wanted to add an example of where this is all leading: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4098886.stm
So next time Alfa, when you go o the library to educate yourself about who you are fighting, you may end up in Gitmo yourself for having been influenced by the evildoers.
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post #39 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-16-2005, 01:57 PM
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RE: EX-Gitmo Prisoners Return to Fight

Quote:
Alfa - 6/16/2005 11:17 AM

O.K. please explain to this country hick who you think, knows nothing of these people or combat situations, how these people were treated.
And how you suppose they came to be combat detainees.
Since the US was offering rewards to the Northern Alliance for Taliban/Al Qaeda prisoners, they could have turned in anyone, for all we know. Since we will not present evidence or press charges, no one will know whether these prisoners were in fact combatents or innocents.

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post #40 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-16-2005, 02:42 PM
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RE: EX-Gitmo Prisoners Return to Fight

Quote:
old300D - 6/16/2005 2:57 PM

Quote:
Alfa - 6/16/2005 11:17 AM

O.K. please explain to this country hick who you think, knows nothing of these people or combat situations, how these people were treated.
And how you suppose they came to be combat detainees.
Since the US was offering rewards to the Northern Alliance for Taliban/Al Qaeda prisoners, they could have turned in anyone, for all we know. Since we will not present evidence or press charges, no one will know whether these prisoners were in fact combatents or innocents.
At least we let them live to defend themselves (eventually). With Pol Pot , or Mr. Pot as I like to call him, all you had to do was show up with a string of noggins and Ka-ching! I rate the Taliban at about the same level of compassion as the Khmer Rouge. I would much prefer incarceration at Gitmo to that of the enemies digs.

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