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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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What's the solution?

It's fairly clear how most people feel about Iraq, but so far most of the posts I've bothered to read (yes, I'm lazy and tend to skip most of them) fail to provide a viable solution. If the US were to pull out of the region today there would be a power vacuum and we'd end up destabilizing the region even more (heck, uniting against the US is probably stopping all out war between that various factions). Regardless of how you feel about the reasons for the war, are there any good solutions for providing freedom for the region and a less-hated stance on US presence (this does not automatically mean no US presence).

So, without commenting on why we're in this mess to begin with, what's the solution?

Thanks,

Jeff
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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 02:33 PM
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RE: What's the solution?

The solution is to turn the whole mess over to the UN. The entire situation in Iraq is analogous to the one in Yugoslavia, and despite all the naysayers, the UN has done an excellent job in Bosnia. The solution there is the same as it should be in Iraq: divide the country into ethnic zones, with each one separated by DMZs patrolled by the UN. Within these enclaves, the people elct a regional assembly. These regional assemblies determine whether that partition wishes to be part of a greater nation. This step was entirely skipped in Iraq, because our oil companies wish us to maintain this fictitous nation, and maintain it with the blood of our children so they can make huge profits in Iraq.

The US should go where it is wanted. Kurdistan, which has already become a de facto independent state, is our strongest ally, would welcome our presence and see us as protectors, not occupiers. All American troops should be withdrawn to Kurdistan immediately. This would give us a strategic base to keep an eye on the country we should have invaded in the first place, Iran.



Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
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RE: What's the solution?

That's great in theory, but haven't most of the UN members said that they want nothing to do with Iraq? Wouldn't that simply cause the world to claim that the US is using them to clean up their own mess? Clearly the solution is not a unilateral one, but how can the US convince the world to help out? What sacrifices will be enough?

Thanks,

Jeff
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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 02:54 PM
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The solution is staring you in the face!

kvining sells a time warping machine on e-bay, there is still 5 days before the end of this auction, but my wish is that the high bidder would return to the 2000 elections and win Florida for the dems.

I feel so miserable without you; its almost like having you here.
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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 04:12 PM
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RE: What's the solution?

Quote:
jdbower - 6/10/2005 4:40 PM

That's great in theory, but haven't most of the UN members said that they want nothing to do with Iraq? Wouldn't that simply cause the world to claim that the US is using them to clean up their own mess? Clearly the solution is not a unilateral one, but how can the US convince the world to help out? What sacrifices will be enough?
The UN has said they want nothing to do with the US's approach to Iraq. We are still not permitting UN Weapons Inspectors (just like Saddam was accused of) to enter Iraq. We need to go to the UN with our hat in our hand, and admit we were wrong in attempting to occupy these people against their will.

Fat chance. The venue to convince the world to help us out is the Security Council. We must ask them to help - instead we attempt to dictate to them, and now send our biggest enemy of the UN, Bolton, there to act as our representative. Look at reality dude - the current US government wants no international involvement in Iraq other than those countries we can dictate to. No one in the Bush admin is looking for a solution. They simply want to continue doing what they are doing, in the hopes Iraq will become the oil company utopia they envision. Everything they are doing is counter-productive to a solution, because they simply do not want one. The only solution is in the hands of the American people, and they chickened out. Why do you think Cheney says a solution will come in "2009"? By then they will all be out of office. Until then, they want the war to continue as it is, as long as they are running the show.


Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 04:37 PM
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RE: What's the solution?

...dilution, of course.
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post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
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RE: What's the solution?

The problem is that no one wants to be in Iraq. With everyone protesting any involvement in Iraq I don't see that everyone will suddenly change their minds is the US asks them vs. when the US asks them. The problem is that there is nothing in it for the common people, nevermind the suffering of people thousands of kilometers away when there are local issues to deal with.

I highly doubt that the Bush administration wants to keep the status quo. It's clearly a drain on the old opinion polls so if the Bush team wants to be a part of the re-election process they need to provide an exit strategy. Unfortuneatly the entire debate seems to be lost in petty squabbling and conjecture as both sides become blinded by their own opinions and outright lies of the other. Reminds me of the "The Truth" ads, the tobacco companies lied to us and twisted numbers around so turnabout is fair play.

Thanks,

Jeff
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post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-11-2005, 04:47 PM
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RE: What's the solution?

There is a solution. Everyone get out!
Yeah I am sure the government in place will be having some bowl problems, but hey, I think everyone is a grown up and there is no need for mommy to be around.
Yeah, there will be instability, and it can be a civil war I might add, but just like other “respectable� nations, they have to figure out what they want how they want it and learn to respect human life. It ain’t happening by having people with diametrically opposed cultural views and perceptions set up policy and guide the hand of the “lost�.
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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-11-2005, 05:18 PM
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RE: What's the solution?

I am with Shabah on this one. We had no plan for what to do after Saddam was toppled, and that did not stop us from going in. I see no reason to wait until we figure out with any certainty what the result of us leaving will be before we just cut bait.

The likelihood we will ever be able to figure out what will happen next in Iraq is pretty slim. Waiting for that to happen to leave is a formula for not leaving. Do it - leave - and figure out what the response needs to be when the situation presents itself. If we are out, it is more likely the UN will be willing to go in, in some way. Jim
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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-11-2005, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
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RE: What's the solution?

I'm curious about your replies to various threads. What is your definition of a successfully Middle East? Clearly you prefer autonomy, but beyond that what are the goals of the Middle East and how would you achieve them? Perhaps I'm being to occidental in my thinking.

My idea of goals would be for the world to have the same standard of living as the US. They should have to worry about eating too much, not about where their next meal is coming from. Poverty and homelessness should be the exception, not the rule. When people have the time to argue politics after doing what needs to be done to feed their family, they are successful. To me these are basics, but is there something more for the Middle Easterners?

The traditional Western view is that this means a strong international economy and a democratic political system. Clearly the latter is not required, nothing says that a dictator can't have a strong economy and a healthy country. Do you have a way to provide for the people of the Middle East without a strong western-style international economy? This is not to say that you need to be run by Starbucks and McDonalds in order to succeed, but I'm having trouble imagining a successful country that doesn't trade with the west. Perhaps I was a bit hasty in stating that Afghanistan needs a strong economy to be successful. If the ME region could be closed off and treated as a black box from which oil can be purchased by the west it would certainly create a period of anarchy and violence, but perhaps that violence would be short lived and a stronger, more united region would emerge.

Thanks,

Jeff
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