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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-08-2005, 01:11 PM
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I agree, politics are not binary

Quote:
That Guy - 6/8/2005 2:08 PM
Goddamnit! I'm not a libbie, unless you mean libertarian (i.e. social liberal/fiscal conservative). Since when are politics binary (you're either a 1 or 0, Democrat or Republican)?
You can be a 0, a 1, or any natural integer in that range!

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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-08-2005, 01:20 PM
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RE: Drudge goes mental over Dean

Quote:
That Guy - 6/8/2005 3:08 PM

Quote:
azimuth - 6/8/2005 2:57 PM

I knew if I chummed the waters a bit all ya'll libbies would come out to play...[:D]

First let me ask, do you find it more charachteristic of liberalism than of conservatism to propose, advocate and defend tax funded govt. social give-away entitlement programs based on need?
Goddamnit! I'm not a libbie, unless you mean libertarian (i.e. social liberal/fiscal conservative). Since when are politics binary (you're either a 1 or 0, Democrat or Republican)?

Seems like liberals are for proposing, advocating and defending tax funded govt. social give-away entitlement programs based on need.

Seems like the "conservatives" currently in office are for proposing, advocating and defending tax funded govt. social give-away entitlement programs based on wealth.

Fair enough?
You may not be a Libbie in the sense that I meant but you are coarse. If you believe what you've said about liberals and social give away programs then what is your opinion of what the drug program Bush pushed through and signed?

How are you fiscally conservative?

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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-08-2005, 01:28 PM
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RE: Drudge goes mental over Dean

Quote:
azimuth - 6/8/2005 1:20 PM

Quote:
That Guy - 6/8/2005 3:08 PM

Quote:
azimuth - 6/8/2005 2:57 PM

I knew if I chummed the waters a bit all ya'll libbies would come out to play...[:D]

First let me ask, do you find it more charachteristic of liberalism than of conservatism to propose, advocate and defend tax funded govt. social give-away entitlement programs based on need?
Goddamnit! I'm not a libbie, unless you mean libertarian (i.e. social liberal/fiscal conservative). Since when are politics binary (you're either a 1 or 0, Democrat or Republican)?

Seems like liberals are for proposing, advocating and defending tax funded govt. social give-away entitlement programs based on need.

Seems like the "conservatives" currently in office are for proposing, advocating and defending tax funded govt. social give-away entitlement programs based on wealth.

Fair enough?
You may not be a Libbie in the sense that I meant but you are coarse. If you believe what you've said about liberals and social give away programs then what is your opinion of what the drug program Bush pushed through and signed?

How are you fiscally conservative?
I'm definitely on board with That Guy.

I don't believe Bush is losing support because of the drug company give-away. For one, that was last year, not even in the polls now. For two it is basically corporate welfare, something all the Republicans seem to support.

Got another "leftie" program Bush is pushing that is causing him to lose support? Social Security?

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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-08-2005, 06:19 PM
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RE: Drudge goes mental over Dean

Pelosi and Reid jumped on Drudge's bandwagon.

Could this be the opening micro-crack of a possible division among Demos similar to the McCain/Frist split? Pelosi and Reid represent the insider/Washington/power elite and Dean is the outsider proletarian (well sort of, I like how Dean ran his state, hardly a proletarian. But bear with me here). Dean ran an excellent campaign to sieze control of the Democratic machine. The insiders resent that mightily but do not want to split from him. Rather, they're hoping Dean will use his own undisciplined rhetoric to push him out without them getting their fingerprints on the knife. But what's Dean's game?

I think he'd use the ouster as an insurgency weapon againstthe establishment types. They are a fine target for a man like Dean who projects passionate idealism, an attribute rarely seen in WEashington, regardless of affiliation. So Dean gets the boot and rallies his troops to take-on the sycophants and accomodaters.

This should make an interesting election cycle. Will the result of the inside struggle be a swing to the middle or to the left? I'm betting the middle. I think somebody with calm, charming, apparent sympathy that can project compassion for the plight of the 'common man' could undercut Dean (the Scream that will not die) and pacify the Washington Elites. It has to be a governor.

Richardson? He is calm, bright and centrist. I'm betting he'll be in the mix. But don't count McCain out yet. He may find a Democrat backbencher to run as his VP. That would be interesting, too.

My final prediction is that the Repos will commit ritual political suicide in the early primaries resulting in some dependable but uninspiring insider getting the nod.
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-08-2005, 06:30 PM
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RE: Drudge goes mental over Dean

Quote:
azimuth - 6/7/2005 1:05 AM
Let me get this straight: Bush is losing support because he is swinging left???? Which issues would those be?
Even as someone that routinely supports the left can realize how Bush has begun to lean left. His spending is out of control (not on the correct things however, but still) and wants bigger government (same as his spending habits). Two fundamental principals of the left.
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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-08-2005, 07:54 PM
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RE: Drudge goes mental over Dean

Quote:
old300D - 6/8/2005 3:28 PM

Quote:
azimuth - 6/8/2005 1:20 PM

Quote:
That Guy - 6/8/2005 3:08 PM

Quote:
azimuth - 6/8/2005 2:57 PM

I knew if I chummed the waters a bit all ya'll libbies would come out to play...[:D]

First let me ask, do you find it more charachteristic of liberalism than of conservatism to propose, advocate and defend tax funded govt. social give-away entitlement programs based on need?
Goddamnit! I'm not a libbie, unless you mean libertarian (i.e. social liberal/fiscal conservative). Since when are politics binary (you're either a 1 or 0, Democrat or Republican)?

Seems like liberals are for proposing, advocating and defending tax funded govt. social give-away entitlement programs based on need.

Seems like the "conservatives" currently in office are for proposing, advocating and defending tax funded govt. social give-away entitlement programs based on wealth.

Fair enough?
You may not be a Libbie in the sense that I meant but you are coarse. If you believe what you've said about liberals and social give away programs then what is your opinion of what the drug program Bush pushed through and signed?

How are you fiscally conservative?
I'm definitely on board with That Guy.

I don't believe Bush is losing support because of the drug company give-away. For one, that was last year, not even in the polls now. For two it is basically corporate welfare, something all the Republicans seem to support.

Got another "leftie" program Bush is pushing that is causing him to lose support? Social Security?
The example I used was the largest most present long lasting illustration of traditionally liberal acts. There are other patterns of behavior that are left leaning. The PC treatment of our weak boarder control is one that I would have expected from the flaccid left relative to national security records. That issue is present and ominous in it's potential for disaster. As SKlass states, he is spending like a liberal admin. too. There are other things which I cannot recall directly but as they occured were noted in the old noggin as being strangely out of place for a true conservative.

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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-08-2005, 08:17 PM
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RE: Drudge goes mental over Dean

You guys make me laugh. It seems if a problem is more complex than just black and white, it confounds you. So, you recolor everything black and white to restore your comfort level. It is a conservative theme, used in the campaign and used daily in conservative assessments of situations, liberals and whatever else they take note of.

Spending money you don't have is not a liberal thing. The fact that George is doing it with a vengence, as did the previous conservatives in the oval office of late, and it is confounding you, does not mean it is a liberal agenda item.

Yes, liberals have actively sought to improve the American standard of living by raising the standard of those living at the bottom of the scale, while conservatives figure the average standard of living can be raised if the richest people get a lot richer. There is no liberal requirement that the goal be achieved by deficit spending.

George has displayed poor judgement in nearly all his decisions to date. That does not mean he is becoming liberal. It just means you are coming to realize he has been floundering since he was given the job. Jim
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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-08-2005, 09:19 PM
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RE: Drudge goes mental over Dean

Quote:
BackRoll23 - 6/8/2005 6:30 PM

Quote:
azimuth - 6/7/2005 1:05 AM
Let me get this straight: Bush is losing support because he is swinging left???? Which issues would those be?
Even as someone that routinely supports the left can realize how Bush has begun to lean left. His spending is out of control (not on the correct things however, but still) and wants bigger government (same as his spending habits). Two fundamental principals of the left.
Oh, for god's sake. He's been spending like a drunken sailor since he hit office. You cannot separate the parties by how much they spend -- Bush is the leader in deficit spending ever.

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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-08-2005, 11:37 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Drudge goes mental over Dean

It shows how brainwashed he is - "big spending" must be "liberal". Well, wars, bloated defense, corporate tax give ways, bloated hiway construction bills are not "liberal". At least liberals spend money where it helps the poor instead of ending up in the pockets of those who are already obscenely wealthy.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-09-2005, 09:17 AM
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RE: Drudge goes mental over Dean

Quote:
azimuth - 6/8/2005 3:20 PM

You may not be a Libbie in the sense that I meant but you are coarse. If you believe what you've said about liberals and social give away programs then what is your opinion of what the drug program Bush pushed through and signed?

How are you fiscally conservative?
Prescription drug bill... you got me. Heavy entitlement. Hate it.

I'm a fiscal conservative because I don't like government spending and like balanced budgets and sound economic policy.
"Fiscal conservatives favor strong national economies with minimal government taxation. This differs from free-market economics in that fiscal conservatives favor minimal government spending on issues which can they believe are better financed through private means, whereas free-market advocates favor complete deregulation and no government interference in any financial matters."

This pretty much describes my viewpoint on economic matters. I tend to emphasize the strong national economy and minimal government spending side over the minimal taxation, but they are all good things.

Have I said anything that makes you think I'm not?
I'm okay with being coarse, at least I haven't attacked anyone or called them a c*nt.
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