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post #41 of 59 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 04:18 PM
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RE: insurgency or popular uprising

Quote:
tcp_ML500 - 6/10/2005 4:03 PM

Quote:
kvining - 6/10/2005 2:53 PM
Here's an "artist's rendition":
..... Edit:

I guess you would appreciate the highlighted section.
Rough translation:
The true catechism we will learn
The hideous fanaticism will become extinct
That's me on the right, Z is on the left. You're in the middle. The man with the look on his face, shocked by the excesses, is Gilly over at MB Shop.

By the way, you forget to mention who the author of "The Declaration of the Rights of Man" was in an earlier post.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #42 of 59 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 09:26 PM
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RE: insurgency or popular uprising


Bombs kill Marines, civilians in Iraq

Army conducting 'criminal probe' into soldiers' possible "fragging" deaths

17 Dead found in mass grave

Friday, June 10, 2005 Posted: 8:02 PM EDT (0002 GMT)


BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A car bomb exploded Friday evening in a northwestern Baghdad neighborhood, killing nine Iraqi civilians and wounding 15 others, Iraqi security forces said.

In another incident, five U.S. Marines died when a bomb hit their vehicle near Haqlaniya in Anbar province, the Marines said Friday.

The assault happened Thursday while the troops were conducting combat operations.

They were assigned to Regimental Combat Team 2, 2nd Marine Division, II Marine Expeditionary Force.

In recent weeks American and Iraqi forces have responded to a surge in violence by launching a series of operations against insurgents in Baghdad and in western and northern Iraq.

The Marines' deaths bring the number of U.S. troops killed in the war to 1,690. Twenty-four have been killed in the first nine days of June alone.

Of those June deaths, at least 18 were combat-related.

The U.S. Army disclosed that it is conducting a "criminal investigation" into the deaths of two others.

Capt. Phillip T. Esposito and 1st Lt. Louis E. Allen died about 10 p.m. Tuesday at Forward Operating Base Danger, near Tikrit.

"The initial investigation by responders and military police indicated that a mortar round struck the window on the side of the building where Esposito and Allen were located at the time," a military statement said.

"Upon further examination of the scene by explosive ordnance personnel, it was determined the blast pattern was inconsistent with a mortar attack," the document states.

The Army is looking at a number of scenarios, including accidental death, attack by an intruder or infiltrator -- and fragging, which is the killing or wounding of a fellow soldier.

Both officers were "assigned to Headquarters & Headquarters Company, 42nd Infantry Division, New York Army National Guard. Esposito was the company commander; Allen served as a company operations officer," the statement reads.

EU delegates visit
Thursday, a group of European Union members was in Baghdad, marking the first such high-level delegation visit to the country since the ouster of dictator Saddam Hussein.

Javier Solana, the EU's top foreign policy official, and Britain's Foreign Secretary Jack Straw met with Iraqi officials to prepare for an international conference on Iraq.

The EU and the United States are co-sponsors of the conference that will have "three main issues -- one that is related to politics in general. The second related to security, and the third related to what we may call rule of law," Solana said.

The conference will be in Brussels, Belgium, on June 22.

Solana said the delegation was meeting with "everybody," including government leaders and Sunni officials who "are not part of the mainstream of the political system."

"We would like very much to see them incorporated. It will not be a successful transition without the participation of everybody," he said.

Iraq's president, Jalal Talabani, said, "We are pleased to have frank dialogue with them [the EU delegation]. They visited Iraq, which was liberated from dictatorship, to show their solidarity with the Iraqi people and pave the way to the conference due to be held in Brussels shortly to help the Iraqi people."

The visit coincided with the announcement that the 55-member National Assembly committee chosen to write a constitution will be expanded to include 15 to 25 non-elected Sunni Arabs.

A large and powerful minority group, Sunni Arabs have been alienated from Iraq's political process since the fall of Saddam Hussein, under whose regime they enjoyed power.

They stayed away from the January 30 transitional assembly election, and they are believed to hold sway over members of the insurgency. The transitional government has been looking for ways to bring Sunni Arabs into the political fold.

Some Shiite members of the committee have expressed their reluctance to grant voting rights to the Sunnis.

Other developments

In an apparent assassination, gunmen on Friday shot and killed a police academy commander in the southeastern city of Basra, an Iraqi army official said. The victim was identified as Col. Abdul Karim al-Daraji.


At least 17 bodies in civilian clothes were found scattered near a town close to the Syrian border that is considered an insurgent hotbed, with 11 shot in the head and another beheaded, witnesses said Friday. The 11 had their hands tied behind their backs, according to the witnesses. (Full story)


A man described as a "terror suspect" was wounded and detained by Task Force Liberty soldiers in Samarra Friday morning, the U.S. military said.

CNN's Ayman Mohyeldin, Jennifer Eccleston, Kevin Flower, Kianne Sadeq and Mohammed Tawfeeq contributed to this report.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #43 of 59 (permalink) Old 06-11-2005, 09:41 AM
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RE: insurgency or popular uprising


Suicide bomber infiltrates Iraqi commando unit
5 slain at Baghdad academy; gunmen kill 11 construction workers

The Associated Press

Updated: 7:59 a.m. ET June 11, 2005BAGHDAD, Iraq - A man wearing explosives under a police uniform blew himself up at the heavily guarded headquarters of a feared commando unit in Baghdad on Saturday, killing five people, police said.

Hours later, gunmen attacked a busload of construction workers south of Baghdad, killing at least 11 and wounding three others, police said.

Separately, U.S. soldiers clashed with armed Iraqis early Saturday in Baghdad, killing two and wounding two others, the military said. Iraqi police said the victims were security guards mistakenly killed by the Americans.

The suicide bombing targeted the headquarters of the Wolf Brigade, a feared commando force dominated by Shiite Muslims.

Sunni Arab leaders have accused the force of kidnapping and killing members of Iraq’s minority Sunni community, including clerics. The government has denied such claims.

It was unclear how the attacker managed to elude detection at the compound in eastern Baghdad’s Bab Sharqi neighborhood. The police uniform he was wearing may have enabled him to avoid stringent checks for explosives.

People entering the compound, which also houses the Interior Ministry, must go through metal detectors and be frisked by policemen equipped with sniffer dogs.

Maj. Falah al-Mahamdawi said he was inside the brigade building when the blast happened.

“I saw five dead bodies lying on the ground plus seven injured people,� he said. “Most of them are policemen.�

The attack may have been motivated by the Sunni struggle for a role in the country’s political process. Sunnis, a minority favored by Saddam Hussein, resent the rise to power of the majority Shiite community and the U.S.-allied Kurds.

This is believed to be a major factor in the continuing insurgency in Iraq that has killed more than 900 people since the new Shiite-led government was announced April 28.

The attack on construction workers occurred in Diyara, 30 miles south of Baghdad, at around 10:30 a.m. when gunmen in at least two cars opened fire on a minibus, said Muthana Khalid, police spokesman for the city of Hillah.

Muthana said the men were all construction workers who lived in Jbala, near Hillah, and were headed to Baghdad. They were employed on various projects at U.S. and Iraqi bases in the Baghdad area, he added. Hillah is about 60 miles south of Baghdad.

Blast kills 10 outside restaurant
In another attack, 10 people were killed late Friday when a car bomb exploded outside a falafel restaurant in Baghdad, Dr. Ali Khazim of Nour Hospital said Saturday. Two children were among the dead, while another 28 people were wounded.

Also Saturday, two Oil Ministry employees were shot dead in Baghdad’s southern Dora district, police official Rasol Salih said. A third man was critically wounded.

The bodies were found in a canal under a footbridge and one of the slain men wore handcuffs and civilian clothes, according to footage taken by Associated Press Television News.

In other violence, a bomb exploded Saturday in a cemetery in the southern city of Najaf, killing two Iraqis, including an 8-year-old girl, and wounding three others from the same family as they visited the graves of relatives, said Capt. Hadi al-Najim.

Al-Najim said the bomb had been planted in the cemetery during August clashes between U.S. forces and supporters of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

Mistaken killings?
U.S. soldiers shot and killed two Iraqis and wounded two others in Baghdad on Saturday when their car came too close to an American armored patrol, military spokesman Lt. Jamie Davis said.

Iraqi police Maj. Moussa Abdul-Karim said the victims were Iraqi security guards driving to work in northern Baghdad’s Shula neighborhood at about 6:30 a.m. and mistakenly shot by American soldiers. He did not say which company they worked for.

Davis said the Iraqis were driving slowly in front of a lead vehicle in an American convoy.

An American soldier in the lead vehicle fired a warning shot to make the Iraqi vehicle move away, but its occupants returned fire, setting off a gunbattle, Davis said.

“The (U.S.) patrol returned fire, killing two occupants, wounding two more and setting their car on fire,� Davis said, adding the American soldiers left the scene without stopping.

Another American patrol returned shortly after and found “multiple AK-47s� inside the vehicle and took the wounded men to a hospital, Davis added.

U.S. military vehicle patrols are on high alert throughout the country, fearing the militants may attack their convoys with car bombs or roadside explosive devices.

© 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #44 of 59 (permalink) Old 06-11-2005, 09:45 AM
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RE: insurgency or popular uprising

Quote:
GermanStar - 6/9/2005 11:20 PM

Yeah, I pointed that out over at MS, but Bot wasn't havin' any...
Huh?
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post #45 of 59 (permalink) Old 06-11-2005, 10:58 AM
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RE: insurgency or popular uprising

...it's the party line and he's stickin wit it, no matter what.
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post #46 of 59 (permalink) Old 06-11-2005, 02:04 PM
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RE: insurgency or popular uprising

[QUOTE]Zeitgeist - 6/11/2005 12:58 PM

...it's the party line and he's stickin wit it, no matter what.[/QUOTE

I just visited the other domain and scanned the gerry can thing. I still don't get it. What did I miss?
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post #47 of 59 (permalink) Old 06-11-2005, 02:43 PM
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RE: insurgency or popular uprising

Quote:
Botnst - 6/11/2005 8:45 AM

Quote:
GermanStar - 6/9/2005 11:20 PM

Yeah, I pointed that out over at MS, but Bot wasn't havin' any...
Huh?
"any poll generated under duress" -- the concept should seem quite familiar, if not the words...

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #48 of 59 (permalink) Old 06-11-2005, 03:15 PM
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RE: insurgency or popular uprising

Perhaps the last poll taken by Saddam, which gave him 99% of the vote, can give us an indication of poll accuracy in Iraq. We are nothing more than Saddam's replacement.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #49 of 59 (permalink) Old 06-11-2005, 04:35 PM
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RE: insurgency or popular uprising

Quote:
kvining - 6/11/2005 5:15 PM

Perhaps the last poll taken by Saddam, which gave him 99% of the vote, can give us an indication of poll accuracy in Iraq. We are nothing more than Saddam's replacement.
Bien dis!
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post #50 of 59 (permalink) Old 06-11-2005, 05:39 PM
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RE: insurgency or popular uprising

Quote:
kvining - 6/11/2005 2:15 PM

Perhaps the last poll taken by Saddam, which gave him 99% of the vote, can give us an indication of poll accuracy in Iraq. We are nothing more than Saddam's replacement.
Yup. Here are my posts verbatim.....


How seriously can you take these results? Iraqi people have been giving the "right answers" for a long time now. Once we're gone for good (oh yeah, never going to happen, right?), then let's see what the polls say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
You've got to do better than that. If you want to challenge teh results, bring forward a poll that contradicts this one then we can discuss them rationally. Rejecting as biased without competing data is just denial because it doesn't fit your paradigm. That is called 'faith'.
I don't reject it -- I question it. It may paint a fairly accurate picture, then again it may not. The fact is that they polled people who lived under a fascist regime for a long, long time, now live under rule of a foreign occupation. This doesn't exactly promote an atmosphere of free, unencumbered opinions.

I believe (and I certainly could be wrong) that a polled 1947 Germany may have provided markedly different results concerning opinions of Jews than a poll conducted in 1942. What do you think?

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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