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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-06-2005, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Those silly document shredders

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kvining - 6/6/2005 9:23 PM

The implications of this is simply incredible. We at the ACLU are dooooooooooooooommedddd!
I don't think so, but OTOH, I haven't written them a check in 20 years. I used to support them, much as I could for being a low-income guy. For all their flaws, and there are many, we need the ACLU to challenge the gov. If they don't, who will? The Republicrats? Hell no, they're the freaking problem!

So even as those folks piss me off much of the time, they do provide an extremely valuable service. Nearly unique. I wish they'd discover amendments after #1. I used to hope they'd moderate their views, but I no longer want that. I want them to be extremists defending extreme positions.

I also want challenges to the status quo from other politcial perspectives. The people in power Repo/Demo/whatever, must be challenged to justify their governance.

Silencing the extremes results in redefinition of extremism. That is dangerous.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-06-2005, 07:48 PM
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RE: Those silly document shredders

Its a sad day for America when defending the Bill of Rights is an "extremist position".

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-06-2005, 08:00 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Those silly document shredders

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kvining - 6/6/2005 9:48 PM

Its a sad day for America when defending the Bill of Rights is an "extremist position".
Do you not understand what I mean?

I mean like when the ACLU defends KKK or neo-NAZI's. These are repellant organizations and they take extremist positions by anybody's measure, including their own. I find those groups without any redeeming value, but the ACLU defends them not because of their views but because a society that can tolerate intolerant bigots is a society that can accept ecperimentation, innovation and change. The two are so entangled that I do not think they are separable--much as I detest the Klan and Nazis.

So if we accept that a legion of assholes has a right to free speech and assembly and worship, that ensures that the mainstream folks do, too. Once we start paring the divergent limbs, there is no stopping it.

I do not think defending the Bill of Rights is extremist. I do think defending jackass groups using the Bill of Rights is extreme. But it is absolutely necessary to the maintenance of my own liberty.
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