Its a lot to ask, but, How about a little consistency? - Page 5 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #41 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-11-2005, 04:56 PM
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RE: Its a lot to ask, but, How about a little consistency?

Whilst searching for the correct spelling of our friend Pahlevi, I came across this list of other humanitarians we've taken to the prom with us.

Friendly dictators

Abacha, General Sani ----------------------------Nigeria
Amin, Idi ------------------------------------------Uganda
Banzer, Colonel Hugo ---------------------------Bolivia
Batista, Fulgencio --------------------------------Cuba
Bolkiah, Sir Hassanal ----------------------------Brunei
Botha, P.W. ---------------------------------------South Africa
Branco, General Humberto ---------------------Brazil
Cedras, Raoul -------------------------------------Haiti
Cerezo, Vinicio -----------------------------------Guatemala
Chiang Kai-Shek ---------------------------------Taiwan
Cordova, Roberto Suazo ------------------------Honduras
Christiani, Alfredo -------------------------------El Salvador
Diem, Ngo Dihn ---------------------------------Vietnam
Doe, General Samuel ----------------------------Liberia
Duvalier, Francois --------------------------------Haiti
Duvalier, Jean Claude-----------------------------Haiti
Fahd bin'Abdul-'Aziz, King ---------------------Saudi Arabia
Franco, General Francisco -----------------------Spain
Hitler, Adolf ---------------------------------------Germany
Hassan II-------------------------------------------Morocco
Marcos, Ferdinand -------------------------------Philippines
Martinez, General Maximiliano Hernandez ---El Salvador
Mobutu Sese Seko -------------------------------Zaire
Noriega, General Manuel ------------------------Panama
Ozal, Turgut --------------------------------------Turkey
Pahlevi, Shah Mohammed Reza ---------------Iran
Papadopoulos, George --------------------------Greece
Park Chung Hee ---------------------------------South Korea
Pinochet, General Augusto ---------------------Chile
Pol Pot---------------------------------------------Cambodia
Rabuka, General Sitiveni ------------------------Fiji
Montt, General Efrain Rios ---------------------Guatemala
Salassie, Halie ------------------------------------Ethiopia
Salazar, Antonio de Oliveira --------------------Portugal
Somoza, Anastasio Jr. --------------------------Nicaragua
Somoza, Anastasio, Sr. -------------------------Nicaragua
Smith, Ian ----------------------------------------Rhodesia
Stroessner, Alfredo -----------------------------Paraguay
Suharto, General ---------------------------------Indonesia
Trujillo, Rafael Leonidas -----------------------Dominican Republic
Videla, General Jorge Rafael ------------------Argentina
Zia Ul-Haq, Mohammed ----------------------Pakistan

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post #42 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-11-2005, 07:21 PM
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RE: Its a lot to ask, but, How about a little consistency?

JimSmith - 6/11/2005 6:17 PM

Botnst - 6/11/2005 5:55 PM

The difficulty with pinning war crimes on the gov of a nation is that both the Conventions and Charter recognize war as a legitimate right of any country that is under threat. So the way any gov will approach belligerency is by claiming the other side was a threat. The only way that particular claim would stick against any nation would be if there were international support for it.

The gov of the USA, through the legal vote of Congress and the gov of the UK through it's vote in Parliament, both provided the legal cover for invasion of Iraq.

Folks can argue until their blue in the face about it, but both votes legitimized the war for both countries.
Bot, one of the issues we have is the vote in the Congress and the vote in Parliament were predicated on a story of WMD which has turned out to be essentially fabricated to fit the political agenda for going to war. That removes any semblance of ligitimacy associated with those votes.

We can't just pretend things happened without context that defines their intent and the limits of their intent. It is an interesting exercise to imagine those votes were based on facts that would support the contention we were threatened by Saddam and his WMD. But the facts are we weren't threatened and the United States government "fixed" the intelligence to gain political support for their conclusion to go to war. I doubt the required majority would second that vote today. Jim
One (of many) thing about war that is different from courtrooms is that there is no appeal. You work with the info you have and deal with the consequences. The gov had a list of threatening things to deal with. The gov dealt with it on the best info at the time. Same info that the prez and PM had. They voted for war and not by a slim margin.

In teh recent elections in both countries both leaders retained power. Everybody in both countries had plenty of time and money to spend bringing out all manner of stories, some of which may even have been true. The voters weighed the various stories, considered teh sources, and voted.

Time to Moveon.
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