Civil War brewing in Republican Party between Frist and McCain? - Page 6 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #51 of 66 (permalink) Old 06-02-2005, 12:21 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
tcp_ML500's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: C 111 Nardo
Location: Exiled
Posts: 9,402
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
RE: Civil War brewing in Republican Party between Frist and McCain?

Quote:
Skeezix - 6/2/2005 12:37 PM

Quote:
tcp_ML500 - 6/2/2005 10:35 AM
How are we to reconcile "we get almost no oil at all from the middle east." with "In 2002, US imports from the Persian Gulf region amounted to 19.8 percent of our total imports."
I'd do so by admitting that my statement wasn't particularly accurate, although only Saudi Arabia ranks as a source comparable to Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela.
Pardon my indiscretion. I'll attempt to be more exacting in the future.
Your use of "although" seems to denote that you still believe that your statement had some degree of validity. Precisely, that 19.8% is substantially equivalent to 0%. It seems it takes a bigger person than you are to <i>really</i> admit to one's mistake.

When you criticize Jim and others for their "lack" or innaccuracy of factual information, ensure that you are beyond reproach yourself. In that way, your criticisms might carry some weight.

<u>Some famous Skeezix quotes</u>
<a href="http://www.benzworld.org/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1211986&mid=1495188&fid=46#M1495188" target = "_blank">I am not prejudiced ... I just point out the facts</a>
<a href="http://www.benzworld.org/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1209515&mid=1495171&fid=46#M1495171" target = "_blank">What you consider is irrelevant, Jim. Facts are relevant.</a>

On an unrelated note (I do not wish to give false interpretation to your words), when stating:
"I'll attempt to be more exacting in the future."
Did you mean:
"I'll attempt to be more exact in the future."?
Or please explain what toll you want to exact from me, us?

Point of detail, un-nuanced individuals have an interesting way averting absolutes. Assuming that you meant "exact", would not the use of "more exact" imply that there are degrees in exactness. Can something be slightly exact? Your statement was exact wasn't it, it was just not ... really exact!

“I feel so miserable without you; it’s almost like having you here.”
-- Stephen Bishop
tcp_ML500 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #52 of 66 (permalink) Old 06-02-2005, 12:27 PM
~BANNED~
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 41,649
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Quoted: 1761 Post(s)
RE: Civil War brewing in Republican Party between Frist and McCain?

The map kinda knocks oil out of the pic for the primary reason for invasion of Iraq. Interesting. That just leaves the fact that Saddam was the most obnoxious aggressor against the will of the USA. If not oil then simply to show nasty dictators not to screw with us? Hence preventing another 911?
Shane is offline  
post #53 of 66 (permalink) Old 06-02-2005, 02:11 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
old300D's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jul 2003
Vehicle: '83 240D
Location: Denver
Posts: 3,774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
RE: Civil War brewing in Republican Party between Frist and McCain?

Quote:
Shane - 6/2/2005 12:27 PM

The map kinda knocks oil out of the pic for the primary reason for invasion of Iraq. Interesting. That just leaves the fact that Saddam was the most obnoxious aggressor against the will of the USA. If not oil then simply to show nasty dictators not to screw with us? Hence preventing another 911?
Actually it tells the opposite. Iraq is NOT delivering oil to the US, and they have huge reserves. Our purpose in Iraq is to increase that 4% to 20%.

OBK #35

old300D is offline  
post #54 of 66 (permalink) Old 06-02-2005, 02:21 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
FeelTheLove's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 83 Astral Silver 280 SL
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 28,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
RE: Civil War brewing in Republican Party between Frist and McCain?

Quote:
Shane - 6/2/2005 2:27 PM

The map kinda knocks oil out of the pic for the primary reason for invasion of Iraq. Interesting. That just leaves the fact that Saddam was the most obnoxious aggressor against the will of the USA. If not oil then simply to show nasty dictators not to screw with us? Hence preventing another 911?
First, the map is three years old. In those three years, US supplies have accelerated their decline, while Middle Eastern has increased.

Second, they are current usage maps, not maps of known reserves. Iraq and Saudi Arabia has most of the remaining oil in the world. Supplies in Canada and the US are in decline - there are no more large pools to be discovered.

Third, since 2002, the amount of oil used by India and China has doubled.

The purpose of invading Iraq is to gain one of the last few remaining immense pools of oil. As oil production declines in the rest of the world, not only the oil, but control of the faucet, become more and more valuable

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
FeelTheLove is offline  
post #55 of 66 (permalink) Old 06-02-2005, 02:37 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
tcp_ML500's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: C 111 Nardo
Location: Exiled
Posts: 9,402
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
RE: Civil War brewing in Republican Party between Frist and McCain?

Quote:
kvining - 6/2/2005 3:21 PM

Quote:
Shane - 6/2/2005 2:27 PM

The map kinda knocks oil out of the pic for the primary reason for invasion of Iraq. Interesting. That just leaves the fact that Saddam was the most obnoxious aggressor against the will of the USA. If not oil then simply to show nasty dictators not to screw with us? Hence preventing another 911?
First, the map is three years old. In those three years, US supplies have accelerated their decline, while Middle Eastern has increased.

Second, they are current usage maps, not maps of known reserves. Iraq and Saudi Arabia has most of the remaining oil in the world. Supplies in Canada and the US are in decline - there are no more large pools to be discovered.

Third, since 2002, the amount of oil used by India and China has doubled.

The purpose of invading Iraq is to gain one of the last few remaining immense pools of oil. As oil production declines in the rest of the world, not only the oil, but control of the faucet, become more and more valuable
Finally found some 2004 figures. The share of Saudi imports is increasing, it supplanted Canada and Mexico as the top supplier to the US beginning in 2003 http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/rankings/crudebycountry.htm

The following is a link to 1991 to 2004 oil imports to the US, by country of origin. (Excel format)

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/ipsr/t410.xls

Your explanation about controling the faucet is probably enlightened, and certainly enlightening for me.

“I feel so miserable without you; it’s almost like having you here.”
-- Stephen Bishop
tcp_ML500 is offline  
post #56 of 66 (permalink) Old 06-02-2005, 07:45 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 95 E300
Location: Inside my head
Posts: 36,850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
RE: Civil War brewing in Republican Party between Frist and McCain?

How are things going concerning Frist & McCain?

Which one (if either) will they put forward in the prez primaries?

Which one (if either) has a chance of beating whichever Democrat gets the nod?

Bot
Botnst is offline  
post #57 of 66 (permalink) Old 06-02-2005, 08:41 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 2014 E250 Bluetec 4-Matic, 1983 240D 4-Speed
Location: USA
Posts: 9,257
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
RE: Civil War brewing in Republican Party between Frist and McCain?

Quote:
Skeezix - 6/1/2005 9:28 PM
First, we get almost no oil at all from the middle east. Our imports come from Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela.
Second, no alternate energy source is going to supplant oil until it can compete with oil in the free market. The only actual solution for the foreseeable future would be to build more nuclear plants and free up the oil and natural gas currently being used to produce electricity.
Given the distance you missed the mark on the first point, which, being merely hindsight required no more than a Google check, there is no reason to suppose your view of the future summed up in your statement "no alternate energy source is going to supplant oil until it can compete with oil in the free market" is any more likely to bear any resemblance to reality. Your statement presupposes no investment, as a national priority, in indentifying and developing alternate energy sources. I think that may be the case if the nation continues to be run by greedy, small minded, failed oil businessmen. But it is not a preordained future. We can develop cost effective, alternate energy sources. This topic has been addressed in other threads, which you can read if you care.

Quote:
Skeezix - 6/1/2005 9:28 PM
When people have more money to spend, they generally spend it. When the economy is in the doldrums, how would you suggest kickstarting things?
There are number of options. Ones that target a future economic advantage for the United States seem a lot wiser selections to invest in than merely handing out money the government doesn't have to people inclined to buy more potato chips and soda pop with it.

Quote:
Skeezix - 6/1/2005 9:28 PM
As long as people expect to get a raise each year for doing just enough work to not get fired, we're going to have some inflation. I can remember when it was much worse than it is today, though.
Last time I researched inflation, it was not a "lazy people" syndrome. This presents a view of an attitude that begins to have a pattern to it.

Quote:
Skeezix - 6/1/2005 9:28 PM
Lemme see if I understand this: My wanting to keep what I've earned is 'selfish', but people who wake up from their naps long enough to demand a bigger handout from the government are not?
Another view into the attitude, and, yes, the pattern is one of "selfish." I am not suggesting this all wrong, but when selfishness is part of an outlook on life that includes describing those with less than you as the cause for inflation because they are "doing just enough work to not get fired" and "who wake up from their naps long enough to demand a bigger handout from the government" which causes taxes to go up, I think it is outside the range of what might be considered minimally compasionate. My opinion.

Quote:
Skeezix - 6/1/2005 9:28 PM
Were this actually so, we'd see more people leaving the US to live in Europe than visa versa. My father-in-law immigrated twice. First to Canada from Europe, then to the US from Canada. After asking the man who'd been there (and returns every few years for visits), I'll stay right here.
I am sure that makes a number of Europeans rejoice. I have lived in both places and been back on business a number of times. I am not surprised most Americans you know prefer the priorities that exist over here. If you can afford to live in private luxury, and therefore don't mind the fact that the public spaces are run down, that you cannot walk on the streets at night, etc., it is readily apparent why. Selfishness can be inherited too, I guess.

Quote:
Skeezix - 6/1/2005 9:28 PM
Energy is taxed at a much higher rate in Europe. The actual costs are about the same as ours.
Further, I see no connection between the cost (with tax) of energy and manufacturing. The manufacturer always takes production costs in consideration when setting the price for the finished product. Either their industry is competing on a level playing field, or it's being protected from competition.
Yeah. They sell more of their goods here than we sell of ours over there. Our trade imbalance with Europe makes this clear.

Quote:
Skeezix - 6/1/2005 9:28 PM
The only logical economic strategy that makes any sense is to force the government to live within it's means. Defict spending is justified to get the economy going again, and in the cause of national security. I know that a lot of liberals don't believe that Iraq is a matter of 'national security', but I'll leave that for another thread, if you're so inclined.
Yes, we have discussed the national security question on many other threads and will continue to discuss it on other threads for some time to come. The investment of deficit spending to stimulate the economy should be directed at achieving some particular purpose, not just making the debt our grandchildren and later generations will have to address a greater problem to satisfy your desire for "wanting to keep what I've earned." Voting for people promising a tax reduction when it is clearly pandering to blatant, low level animal instincts, like greed and selfishness reinforces the natural instinct for politicians to pander and manipulate in the first place. It is like rewarding your dog for biting you.

Any investment that requires deficit spending should be tied to a plan where that deficit spending someday results in specific job increases that will generate enough additional taxes to pay the investment back. The present situation results in more capital in the hands of people investing in exporting jobs from the US to lower cost labor pools, like China, India and other emerging industrial nations. No one there pays taxes in the US, so there is no payback. Jim
JimSmith is offline  
post #58 of 66 (permalink) Old 06-04-2005, 11:53 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 95 E300
Location: Inside my head
Posts: 36,850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
RE: Civil War brewing in Republican Party between Frist and McCain?

Other than for a point of argument, what does it matter where the petroleum we buy originates? That's just a transaction. The mix of buyers and sellers with whom this country trades is not set by the government, it is set by contract between buyers and sellers. That is unless the gov gets pissed at some foreign state and wants to stop trade with them. The result is that there is always somebody else who will queue-up at the pump--if not us, somebody else. And we'll buy from another source. The oild doesn't care who buys it nor whence it cometh. Oil embargoes don't mean diddly as the seller can find ample buyers, legally or not (like Saddam and the French, for example).
Botnst is offline  
post #59 of 66 (permalink) Old 06-04-2005, 08:05 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
FeelTheLove's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 83 Astral Silver 280 SL
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 28,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
RE: Civil War brewing in Republican Party between Frist and McCain?

Quote:
tcp_ML500 - 6/2/2005 4:37 PM


.....Your explanation about controling the faucet is probably enlightened, and certainly enlightening for me.
Hey, everyone in the oil business knows what's really going on. If you controlled Iraq and Syria, you control a contigous land mass from the Mediterrean to the Persian Gulf. It controls the faucets in the three most strategic directions - to East, thru the Persian Gulf, Asia can be strangled for oil if necessary. To the North, if another major power arises in Europe, the oil can be choked off to them. To the West, oil from Saudi Arabia and Iraq can be piped to the coast of Syria, giving oil tankers bound for Houston a straight shot, cutting out the Suez canal. Its the reason we do not want a three-state solution for the conflict in Iraq - the Sunni state in the middle of everything would be a Baath Socialist State (as Syria currently is). This war has never been a war against "terrorists" - it has been a war against socialist regimes, who desire monopolies over pipeline ownership and well ownership, and wish to charge taxes and transit fees on oil that passes thru their territory. The oil companies want to solve that problem. They have masked their war against Arab nationalists, an enemy they have been fighting since the 1920s, with their phony "terror war".

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
FeelTheLove is offline  
post #60 of 66 (permalink) Old 06-05-2005, 08:11 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 95 E300
Location: Inside my head
Posts: 36,850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
RE: Civil War brewing in Republican Party between Frist and McCain?

Ahhh, the nefarious hand of Halliburton. It all makes sense now.
Botnst is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome