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post #21 of 99 (permalink) Old 05-17-2005, 07:43 AM
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RE: Why is Islam such a violent religion?

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kvining - 5/17/2005 1:50 AM

I can just see the official government explanation now - "Hey, we may smear you guys with feces, make you jerk off in front of us, tie you to a leash, kick the shit out of you with attack dogs, but hey, we would never, never flush your book down the toilet! Who the hell do you think we are anyway!"

That's pretty damn, funny, sad and accurate all at the same time...

The irony trifecta.

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post #22 of 99 (permalink) Old 05-17-2005, 08:08 AM
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RE: Why is Islam such a violent religion?

OK, there is a big difference between burning a flag and desicrating a holy book. I don't recal that Muslims burn Bibles or Torahs; they consider both books as sacred. There is no point in balancing out this argument tiggerfink, I mean look at how many people in different nations including the US that burn the US flag. Burning the flag is a form of speech, maleciously destroying a religious book is an insult. If you don't belive me go ahead and try it for yourself in front of a Baptist or Evengilical church in your country and see if the mob will think buring the Bible is a freedom bestowed upon you.
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post #23 of 99 (permalink) Old 05-17-2005, 08:45 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Why is Islam such a violent religion?

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Shabah - 5/17/2005 9:08 AM

OK, there is a big difference between burning a flag and desicrating a holy book. I don't recal that Muslims burn Bibles or Torahs; they consider both books as sacred. There is no point in balancing out this argument tiggerfink, I mean look at how many people in different nations including the US that burn the US flag. Burning the flag is a form of speech, maleciously destroying a religious book is an insult. If you don't belive me go ahead and try it for yourself in front of a Baptist or Evengilical church in your country and see if the mob will think buring the Bible is a freedom bestowed upon you.
To me there is no difference. It is just a freedom of expression. America has burned Bibles in the past to protest. How is killing justify for desecrating the Quaran?

How can Democracy work in the Middle East when Muslims cannot protest the interpretations of the Quaran by so call holy men?

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post #24 of 99 (permalink) Old 05-17-2005, 09:31 AM
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RE: Why is Islam such a violent religion?

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Shabah - 5/17/2005 10:08 AM

OK, there is a big difference between burning a flag and desicrating a holy book. I don't recal that Muslims burn Bibles or Torahs; they consider both books as sacred. There is no point in balancing out this argument tiggerfink, I mean look at how many people in different nations including the US that burn the US flag. Burning the flag is a form of speech, maleciously destroying a religious book is an insult. If you don't belive me go ahead and try it for yourself in front of a Baptist or Evengilical church in your country and see if the mob will think buring the Bible is a freedom bestowed upon you.
In the US, a person burning a Bible, while definitely a target for a good beating, would be entitled to police protection while he did so, and those who assualt him would be subject to arrest and civil suit. It is in fact a freedom bestowed on us. Given the entry of Fundie Christians into politics, its only a matter of time before it happens if you ask me. And personally, I doubt if an individual burning a koran would trigger riots. I think the real issue here is that a representative of the US government, which is being seen in the post-Abu Garib/Iraq Invasion view as murderous and opressive, burned a Koran.



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post #25 of 99 (permalink) Old 05-17-2005, 09:35 AM
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RE: Why is Islam such a violent religion?

"Null Hypothesis" I say tiggerfink. Again freedom of expression is not the same as religious blasphemy. Blasphemy in all Judaic religions is punishable by death. Don’t tell me that the US is truly and fully secular. Your president himself says that he is guided by the All Mighty and that his “crusade� is what will cure this world of its festering problems. If I was in Washington today just protesting his “convictions� I guarantee you tiggerfink that I will soon be witnessing book flushing parties in Gitmo while being tormented by some demented menstrually challenged officer (hence the ink), all compliment of tax payers that believe your opinion of democracy.
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post #26 of 99 (permalink) Old 05-17-2005, 09:46 AM
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RE: Why is Islam such a violent religion?

I understand Kevin, but the same applies in many but not all Muslim countries. There will be police protection as the crowd would want to reduce such an individual to a pulpe. What I see nowdays is that the US is moving towards fundamentalism just like you said while trying to define a form of democracy on others that is self serving. Kevin, we are all bad guys because we are human. Instead of trying to force each other to see the world our own ways why not just accept our differences and influence each other in good deeds? Let's have a battle of the good, let's see who can outdo the other. Unfortunatly I have to come back to the ground as Huston is controlling the the amount of fuel in my tank: "Huston we got a problem".
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post #27 of 99 (permalink) Old 05-17-2005, 10:05 AM
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RE: Why is Islam such a violent religion?

Quote:
kvining - 5/17/2005 1:50 AM

I can just see the official government explanation now - "Hey, we may smear you guys with feces, make you jerk off in front of us, tie you to a leash, kick the shit out of you with attack dogs, but hey, we would never, never flush your book down the toilet! Who the hell do you think we are anyway!"

hmm are u a liberal? Communist?

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post #28 of 99 (permalink) Old 05-17-2005, 10:13 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Why is Islam such a violent religion?

Quote:
Shabah - 5/17/2005 10:35 AM

"Null Hypothesis" I say tiggerfink. Again freedom of expression is not the same as religious blasphemy. Blasphemy in all Judaic religions is punishable by death. Don’t tell me that the US is truly and fully secular. Your president himself says that he is guided by the All Mighty and that his “crusade� is what will cure this world of its festering problems. If I was in Washington today just protesting his “convictions� I guarantee you tiggerfink that I will soon be witnessing book flushing parties in Gitmo while being tormented by some demented menstrually challenged officer (hence the ink), all compliment of tax payers that believe your opinion of democracy.
We have religious blasphemy in the movies, and in protest in America. But it is not a crime by death. We just think they are a bunch of lunatics and shake our heads.

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post #29 of 99 (permalink) Old 05-17-2005, 10:39 AM
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RE: Why is Islam such a violent religion?

Quote:
tiggerfink - 5/17/2005 9:13 AM

We have religious blasphemy in the movies, and in protest in America. But it is not a crime by death. We just think they are a bunch of lunatics and shake our heads.
Is this a "what have you done for me lately" thing? Does history count for nothing?

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post #30 of 99 (permalink) Old 05-17-2005, 11:07 AM
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RE: Why is Islam such a violent religion?

Quote:
azimuth - 5/17/2005 1:32 AM
In the case of the desecrated Koran, the Muslim people accepted poorly reserched info from what is now officially an unrelyable source. They may have believed themselves to be well informed but they were misled and, being somewhat suceptible to emotionalism anyway, they reacted with emotion instead of proceeding with caution. We see what happens when throwing caution to the wind has done too many times in history.
Your dissertation about emotionalism is probably accurate. Many a "charismatic" leader will appeal to irrationalilty. building on ideals of nationalism, finding the scapegoat, fear, etc...

Where you list me is when you reduced the argument in the quote above (or when I thought you might have reduced it).

Granted, the information was unreliable. However, I thought the question was not about reliability of the source, but about behavior consecutive to the release of the erroneous information.

In other words, you seem to be saying: "If the information had been verified, it would not have been released. If it had not been released, the violence would not have occurred"
The more interesting question was "Assume the information was reliable, is the violence justifiable then?"

Quote:
Does the Koran teach that violent behavior is justfied? If so, when and why?
It only matters that crazed individual will twist the "Word" to make the emotional masses do their bidding.

I know that if I die a martyr, I'll get 72 virgins. Of course, I'll have to use them judiciously so as to make them last an eternity. But Botnst and GermanStar convinced me that compared to infinity, 72 = 0. That's probably the only reason I am not willing to die a martyr, to a cause I don;t believe in. That and my very incredibly threshold of tolerance for pain.

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