"American intelligence" is truly an oxymoron, isn't it? - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-10-2005, 07:10 PM Thread Starter
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"American intelligence" is truly an oxymoron, isn't it?

Captured Al-Qaeda kingpin is case of ‘mistaken identity’

THE capture of a supposed Al-Qaeda kingpin by Pakistani agents last week was hailed by President George W Bush as “a critical victory in the war on terror�. According to European intelligence experts, however, Abu Faraj al-Libbi was not the terrorists’ third in command, as claimed, but a middle-ranker derided by one source as “among the flotsam and jetsam� of the organisation.

Al-Libbi’s arrest in Pakistan, announced last Wednesday, was described in the United States as “a major breakthrough� in the hunt for Osama Bin Laden.

Bush called him a “top general� and “a major facilitator and chief planner for the Al- Qaeda network�. Condoleezza Rice, secretary of state, said he was “a very important figure�. Yet the backslapping in Washington and Islamabad has astonished European terrorism experts, who point out that the Libyan was neither on the FBI’s most wanted list, nor on that of the State Department “rewards for justice� programme.

Another Libyan is on the FBI list — Anas al-Liby, who is wanted over the 1998 East African embassy bombings — and some believe the Americans may have initially confused the two. When The Sunday Times contacted a senior FBI counter-terrorism official for information about the importance of the detained man, he sent material on al-Liby, the wrong man.

“Al-Libbi is just a ‘middle-level’ leader,� said Jean-Charles Brisard, a French intelligence investigator and leading expert on terrorism finance. “Pakistan and US authorities have completely overestimated his role and importance. He was never more than a regional facilitator between Al-Qaeda and local Pakistani Islamic groups.�

According to Brisard, the arrested man lacks the global reach of Al-Qaeda leaders such as Ayman al-Zawahiri, Bin Laden’s number two, Khalid Shaikh Mohammad, the mastermind of the September 11 attacks, or Anas al-Liby.

Although British intelligence has evidence of telephone calls between al-Libbi and operatives in the UK, he is not believed to be Al-Qaeda’s commander of operations in Europe, as reported.

The only operations in which he is known to have been involved are two attempts to assassinate Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan’s president, in 2003. Last year he was named Pakistan’s most wanted man with a $350,000 (£185,000) price on his head.

No European or American intelligence expert contacted last week had heard of al-Libbi until a Pakistani intelligence report last year claimed he had taken over as head of operations after Khalid Shaikh Mohammad’s arrest. A former close associate of Bin Laden now living in London laughed: “What I remember of him is he used to make the coffee and do the photocopying.�

What is known is that al-Libbi moved from Libya to Pakistan in the mid-1980s before joining the jihad in Afghanistan. He married a Pakistani woman and is said to specialise in maps and diagrams. He is thought to have joined Bin Laden in Sudan with other Libyan nationals in about 1992 and to have become Al-Qaeda’s co-ordinator with home-grown Pakistani terrorist groups after 9/11.

Some believe al-Libbi’s significance has been cynically hyped by two countries that want to distract attention from their lack of progress in capturing Bin Laden, who has now been on the run for almost four years.

Even a senior FBI official admitted that al-Libbi’s “influence and position have been overstated�. But this weekend the Pakistani government was sticking to the line that al-Libbi was the third most important person in the Al-Qaeda network.

One American official tried to explain the absence of al-Libbi’s name on the wanted list by saying: “We did not want him to know he was wanted.�

Whatever his importance, al-Libbi is the sixth Al-Qaeda figure to have been caught in Pakistan, suggesting that the country is now the organisation’s centre of operations. The interior minister, Aftab Khan Sherpao, conceded that Bin Laden and his deputy might be hiding in a Pakistani city.

“But the capture of al-Libbi will have made them very apprehensive. Whether big fry or small fry, they’re on the run, I can tell you that.�

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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-10-2005, 07:35 PM
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RE: "American intelligence" is truly an oxymoron, isn't it?

It is also interesting to note that the only "news" organization that was allowed to accompany the troops on their current offensive against the goat farmers of western Iraq is Fox News. Truly, we have entered the age of mis-information and government propaganda. I find it amazing when posters here decry the "liberal media", totally oblivious to the rise of an official government media disguises as an independent news source. I have not heard one word on Fox reporting what is in the article you cite, after a week of blatant propanganda on the subject of this capture. I also constantly read in the international press how the role of al Queda and Zaquari in Iraq is blatantly exaggerated by the US government, who has to hide the fact it is actively murdering one political faction of Iraqis in order to prop up their sham government.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-10-2005, 07:54 PM
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RE: "American intelligence" is truly an oxymoron, isn't it?

Even the name alludes to a joke. Al-Libbi, Al-ibi, ALIBI!

All hail the Sixteen Men of Tain!
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-10-2005, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
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RE: "American intelligence" is truly an oxymoron, isn't it?

"One American official tried to explain the absence of al-Libbi’s name on the wanted list by saying: “We did not want him to know he was wanted." [:D] [:D] [:D]

Do you suppose that if we took bin Laden of the wanted list, he'd chill out, buy a house in the 'burbs, kick back and watch his new big-screen TV?

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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-10-2005, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
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RE: "American intelligence" is truly an oxymoron, isn't it?

Quote:
kuan1 - 5/10/2005 6:54 PM

Even the name alludes to a joke. Al-Libbi, Al-ibi, ALIBI!
Good one kuan!

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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-10-2005, 08:24 PM
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RE: "American intelligence" is truly an oxymoron, isn't it?

Quote:
kvining - 5/10/2005 9:35 PM

It is also interesting to note that the only "news" organization that was allowed to accompany the troops on their current offensive against the goat farmers of western Iraq is Fox News. Truly, we have entered the age of mis-information and government propaganda. I find it amazing when posters here decry the "liberal media", totally oblivious to the rise of an official government media disguises as an independent news source. I have not heard one word on Fox reporting what is in the article you cite, after a week of blatant propanganda on the subject of this capture. I also constantly read in the international press how the role of al Queda and Zaquari in Iraq is blatantly exaggerated by the US government, who has to hide the fact it is actively murdering one political faction of Iraqis in order to prop up their sham government.
That's not true about the reporters. I read a foreign reporter's first-hand account. At a guess, I would suppsoe that embedded reporters are the ones aided in access to combat areas, though anybody can take a chance and freelance.

I read about the claim concerning that Libbi chracter in the NY Times. Cajoling an unstable dictatorship to fight against their interest is a difficult diplomatic move. It's either suck-up and stroke or fight them. At this time stroking seems to be working.

Who wants to invade a country of hundreds of millions of people to pursue a handful of terorists? I'm looking for a show of hands.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-10-2005, 08:40 PM
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RE: "American intelligence" is truly an oxymoron, isn't it?


Weapons-Grade Plutonium Possibly Found at Iraqi Nuke Complex
Friday, April 11, 2003

BAGHDAD, Iraq — U.S. Marines may have found weapons-grade plutonium in a massive underground facility discovered beneath Iraq's Al Tuwaitha nuclear complex, Fox News confirmed Friday.

Coalition forces are investigating a stash of radioactive material found at the site south of Baghdad, an embedded reporter, Carl Prine of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, first told Fox News on Thursday.

U.S. defense officials on Friday confirmed that preliminary field tests did in fact indicate the material could be plutonium.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has said that any potential weapons of mass destruction retrieved during Operation Iraqi Freedom will be analyzed by not only U.S. scientists, but weapons experts around the world, to be sure of the results.

Meanwhile, the Army Times reported that troops with the 101st Airborne Division this week unearthed 11 shipping containers full of lab equipment at a chemical plant in Karbala.

The material was discovered at the complex, which is operated by the Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission and is located south of Baghdad's suburbs.

While officials aren't prepared to call the discovery a "smoking gun," two preliminary tests conducted on the material have indicated that it may be weapons-grade plutonium.

The discovery of the underground labyrinth of labs and warehouses was unexpected, Fox News has confirmed, and forces in the area are testing a variety of things to best determine the significance of the find.

So far, Marine nuclear and intelligence experts have found 14 buildings that have high levels of radiation, Prine reported Thursday.

His report noted that some of the tests have found nuclear residue too deadly for human contact.

The Marine radiation detectors go "off the charts" a few hundred meters outside the nuclear compound, where locals say "missile water" is stored in enormous caverns, reported Prine, who is embedded with the U.S. 1st Marine Division.

"It's amazing," Chief Warrant Officer Darrin Flick, the battalion's nuclear, biological and chemical warfare specialist told the newspaper. "I went to the off-site storage buildings, and the rad detector went off the charts. Then I opened the steel door, and there were all these drums, many, many drums, of highly radioactive material."

Former Iraqi scientist Gazi George told Fox News Friday that the material "definitely" could have been planned for use in nuclear weapons or dirty bombs.

"The high levels of radiation suggest it's a high-level nuclear waste that was stored underground, trying to hide it for the process of repurposing it for the future … or just to make dirty bombs out of the material that's down there," George said.

"If the material has not been disclosed by Iraqis to the United Nations …[then] definitely this material was hidden there to use it as a source for extracting plutonium chemically and using it in dirty bombs.

"Saddam always tried to hide ... uranium or other nuclear fuels so we could use them in the future for weapons of mass destruction."

George said it's important the coalition find Iraqi scientists who know about these weapons so they can hunt down the harmful material and destroy it.

"I think this demonstrates the failure of the U.N. weapons inspections and demonstrates that our guys are going to find the weapons of mass destruction."

This underground discovery could still test to be perfectly legitimate and offer no proof of chemical, biological or nuclear weapons. The CIA encouraged international inspectors in the fall of 2002 to probe Al Tuwaitha for weapons of mass destruction, and the inspectors came away empty-handed.

"They went through that site multiple times, but did they go underground? I never heard anything about that," physicist David Albright, a former IAEA Action Team inspector in Iraq from 1992 to 1997, told the Tribune-Review.

"The Marines should be particularly careful because of those high readings," he told the paper. "Three hours at levels like that and people begin to vomit. That leads me to wonder, if the readings are accurate, whether radioactive material was deliberately left there to expose people to dangerous levels.

"You couldn't do scientific work in levels like that. You would die."

Capt. John Seegar, a combat engineer commander from Houston, is currently running the operation in Al Tuwaitha. "I've never seen anything like it, ever," he told the Tribune-Review. "How did the world miss all of this? Why couldn't they see what was happening here?"

The Army Times reported that troops from the 326th Engineer Battalion and chemical specialists on Wednesday found steel containers full of $1 million of sophisticated lab equipment near the Karbala Chemical Company.

The equipment included a machine used to analyze chemical compounds and a 750-pound centrifugal pump that was made in Finland, shipped to a Jordan company and ended up in Iraq. One bin was filled with documents on Baath Party letterhead.

Chemical protective mask filters were on the ground and hand grenades and loose ammunition were also in the facility.

The Mobile Exploitation Team -- made up of civilians and military chemical experts -- went to the scene Thursday and closed off the area.

"This is significant," Army Chief Warrant Officer 2 Richard Gonzales, head of the team, told the Army Times. "We would not be here if it was inconsequential."

U.N. weapons inspectors spent five hours at an adjacent munitions factory on Feb. 23.

The Karbala Chemical Plant supposedly was bombed during the first Gulf War, but there are signs that an active lab there was recently used.

Fox News' Carl Cameron and Major Garrett contributed to this report.


Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-10-2005, 09:22 PM
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RE: "American intelligence" is truly an oxymoron, isn't it?

Quote:
Botnst - 5/10/2005 10:24 PM

Quote:
kvining - 5/10/2005 9:35 PM

It is also interesting to note that the only "news" organization that was allowed to accompany the troops on their current offensive against the goat farmers of western Iraq is Fox News. Truly, we have entered the age of mis-information and government propaganda. I find it amazing when posters here decry the "liberal media", totally oblivious to the rise of an official government media disguises as an independent news source. I have not heard one word on Fox reporting what is in the article you cite, after a week of blatant propanganda on the subject of this capture. I also constantly read in the international press how the role of al Queda and Zaquari in Iraq is blatantly exaggerated by the US government, who has to hide the fact it is actively murdering one political faction of Iraqis in order to prop up their sham government.
That's not true about the reporters. I read a foreign reporter's first-hand account. At a guess, I would suppsoe that embedded reporters are the ones aided in access to combat areas, though anybody can take a chance and freelance.

I read about the claim concerning that Libbi chracter in the NY Times. Cajoling an unstable dictatorship to fight against their interest is a difficult diplomatic move. It's either suck-up and stroke or fight them. At this time stroking seems to be working.

Who wants to invade a country of hundreds of millions of people to pursue a handful of terorists? I'm looking for a show of hands.
Maybe Fox is the only broadcast news out there? I know the print media is there but I haven't paid any attention to broadcast news. usually not much to learn from those guys: Pretty pictures, no depth.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-10-2005, 09:47 PM
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RE: "American intelligence" is truly an oxymoron, isn't it?

Quote:
kvining - 5/10/2005 8:40 PM


Weapons-Grade Plutonium Possibly Found at Iraqi Nuke Complex
Friday, April 11, 2003

BAGHDAD, Iraq — U.S. Marines may have found weapons-grade plutonium in a massive underground facility discovered beneath Iraq's Al Tuwaitha nuclear complex, Fox News confirmed Friday.

Coalition forces are investigating a stash of radioactive material found at the site south of Baghdad, an embedded reporter, Carl Prine of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, first told Fox News on Thursday.

...

Fox News' Carl Cameron and Major Garrett contributed to this report.
Great story, too bad it turned out to be wrong. Did you post this to show the crap Fox distributes as "news"?

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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-10-2005, 10:17 PM
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RE: "American intelligence" is truly an oxymoron, isn't it?

This administration is used to promoting and heaping awards on the mediocre, the inept, and the failures.

Not surprising a middle-man would be mistaken for a top level.

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