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post #41 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-11-2005, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Good questions!

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azimuth - 5/11/2005 12:07 PM

I wonder if you would define for me what it means to use abortion as a contraceptive.
Is this some sort of stall tactic? You can't use the rope-a-dope in a discussion forum. [:D]

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post #42 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-11-2005, 05:48 PM
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RE: Girl, 13, argues right to abortion

Is abortion ever not okay? If the baby is 8 mos 3wks would abortion still be okay?

What about at 6 mos?

5? 4?


Most people draw the line at some assumed moment of viability. Like, "If the baby can live after delivery on its' own...". Of course, no baby can. Some cultures, for that very reason, allowed infanticide for some time following birth to allow the destruction of defective offspring which would be a burden on parents and community. That makes sense, doesn't it?

We are getting ever closer to in vitro reproduction--in which a uterus is not needed. If a baby could be produced without the need of a mother's body, then it is capable of living outside of the uterus from conception. That makes the argument about viability awkward, doesn't it?

The only consistent position is the most conservative pro-life argument concerning life from zygote to grave. Everything else is just a matter of degree.
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post #43 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-11-2005, 05:58 PM
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RE: Girl, 13, argues right to abortion

The question of life and viability have never been a concern to me. It is a question of what rights living, functioning members of society have to not have their destiny decided by The State. In my view, if a women does not want to bear a child, forcing her to bear it by threat of imprisonment is fascism. I tell you what - when the in utero kits come out, buy one, keep it well watered on your window sill, and when the baby is born, you get to raise it.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

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post #44 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-11-2005, 06:16 PM
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RE: Girl, 13, argues right to abortion

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smurfccoupe - 5/11/2005 3:18 PM

Yes, whether it's a life or a potential life, I don't personally see any difference. The mother should still be able to terminate it using her judgement anyway.

Yes, I view abortion as murder of a sort; if that makes me a monster in your mind that I think it's ok for society to allow it as an option to women, I'll still sleep fine at night. No need to call me "sir", btw.
How does a reasonable person respond to an individual who recognizes an act as murder and not only condones it but endorses it as an option for the powerful?

There are legions of examples of murderers and thier apologists in history and present day. You have proudly and defiantly defined yourself. You are in distinguished infamous company.

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post #45 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-11-2005, 06:32 PM
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RE: Certainly

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tcp_ML500 - 5/11/2005 3:27 PM

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azimuth - 5/11/2005 2:07 PM
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tcp_ML500 - 5/11/2005 12:39 PM
I, for one, completely disapprove and will voice recriminations for all who would use abortions as means of contraception
I wonder if you would define for me what it means to use abortion as a contraceptive.
Assume a woman of child bearing age wishing to have sex. Assume that she is in control (we'll get back to that later...) Further assume that she does not wish to rear a child (I know it's a sin, but hey, we've all been there, atheists and hypocrits alike)

Her choices are
1) to take pill (assume 100% effectiveness)
2) to force her partner to pack the meat with cellophane

Assume she does neither and ends up being pregnant.
Here wishes are still identical to what they were at the onset, wants to have sex (check), does not wnat a child (gasp)

She has an abortion, which effectively was substituted for the use of a contraceptive.

Again, can't imagine that any woman would want to subject herself to that, but you know how some members of the masculine cast can be manipulative jerks...

About control,

Three kinds of woman exist: The whore, the bitch, the pain in the ass.
The whore does it with every one.
The bitch does it with everyone but you.
The pain in the ass only wants to do it with you.
so when you stated that these contraceptive abortions are a "minuscule percentage" of the total abortions, do you have any primary source material that supports this claim?

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post #46 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-11-2005, 06:45 PM
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RE: Good questions!

Quote:
GermanStar - 5/11/2005 4:55 PM

Quote:
azimuth - 5/11/2005 12:07 PM

I wonder if you would define for me what it means to use abortion as a contraceptive.
Is this some sort of stall tactic? You can't use the rope-a-dope in a discussion forum. [:D]
Gimme a break G, I'm trying to set up a T ball shot to right field[:D]

I hope, in your other post, that you are not applying more value to one life over the value of the other absent guilt or agression. I thought that you were righteously indignant when others have taken that position.

Earlier, when we discussed this issue, the doubt was in the presence of life. Now, if you are advocating the right of one person to kill another for convenience sake, I am disappointed.

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post #47 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-11-2005, 06:52 PM
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RE: Girl, 13, argues right to abortion

In the abortion question, someone has got to lose. Either the women loses her youth to raising a child she does not want, or a fetus does not achieve existance. We simply cannot coerce women in this way and call ourselves a free society.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

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post #48 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-11-2005, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Good questions!

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azimuth - 5/11/2005 5:45 PM

I thought that you were righteously indignant when others have taken that position.
Exactly right. Ever swat a fly? I must admit that I have. I ask again -- is a tumor alive?

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post #49 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-11-2005, 07:00 PM
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RE: Girl, 13, argues right to abortion

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kvining - 5/11/2005 8:52 PM

In the abortion question, someone has got to lose. Either the women loses her youth to raising a child she does not want, or a fetus does not achieve existance. We simply cannot coerce women in this way and call ourselves a free society.
In this, KV, we agree. Let me ask, where is the harm to the woman in her youth if she gives this child up to adoptive parents? How does she lose her youth?

It appears to me that we could provide a winning scenario for all involved and no life is lost.

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post #50 of 75 (permalink) Old 05-11-2005, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Good questions!

Quote:
azimuth - 5/11/2005 5:45 PM

Earlier, when we discussed this issue, the doubt was in the presence of life. Now, if you are advocating the right of one person to kill another for convenience sake, I am disappointed.
I still believe that an egg is not a chicken. Have you ever eaten an egg? Have you ever eaten chicken? If so, do you see the difference?

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