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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-23-2005, 04:13 AM
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RE: Condescending Rice tells all...

mzsmbs,
You STILL do not understand. Censorship is when governemnt does it; not when private individuals or groups do it.
When Fox, or ABC/CBS etc slant a story, or witholds part of a story, it is not censorship; it is bias, and perhaps propaganda. but it is not censorship.
When an entertainer makes polical statements and his/her fans react at the box office to either support or deny support, that is not censorship. It is simply an illustration that actions have consequences. Actions always have consequences--- unless liberals intervene to halt the natural order of things. When I see (liberal) performers whine that they experiences censorship because their sales fell after they said something, I laugh. They want to be free from consequences; it isn't going to happen. They want no opposition to their pronouncements. Much like some of you here--You want Fox censored for how they report--You are the ones who want cansorship. Liberals, HA! Hypocrits! You only support the Constitution when it suits yoyr agenda.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-23-2005, 07:46 AM
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RE: Condescending Rice tells all...

censorship and propaganda go hand in hand. believe you me.. i came from behind the iron curtain.. those guys were masters at it...

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=censor

when it's not the whole truth it's censorship.




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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-23-2005, 02:11 PM
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RE: Condescending Rice tells all...

This is getting ridiculous; i feel like I'm talking to a stone wall!!
In response to " when its not the whole truth its censorship" That is just a false statement! Maybe, your education in English gave you some wrong ideas. Censorship ( at least in this use of the word )is when the GOVERNMENT prevents or stops someone from exercising their freedom to speak freely. Period. There is no other use for the word.
Not getting the whole truth can be anything from simply not digging enough to get the truth, to lies and propaganda, but whatever it is it is not, by any historic definition " censorship".
You cannot "censor" anything. You can discriminate, and chose what events to report and the spin you will use to editorialize about them. You can persuade using the truth, or using complete inventions.
As I said above, censorship--in the realm of this discussion is always and only an act performed by governments.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-23-2005, 05:59 PM
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RE: Condescending Rice tells all...

There is censorship of a form whereby 'the establishment' narrows the agenda or edits a spectrum of views to suit its ends. Some topics are seen fit for discussion, some are subtly (or blatantly) off limits. Call it censorship, call it deliberate bias, call it what you will, it boils down to intellectual dishonesty, misleading of the public and subversion of democracy. Getting hung up on definitions isn't particularly productive. In my opinion.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-23-2005, 09:33 PM
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RE: Condescending Rice tells all...

I'm holding my breath for the day that all politicians tell the whole, unembellished truth on controversial, difficult, dangerous, or contentious subjects.

Diogenes, where is thy lantern?
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-24-2005, 05:56 AM
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RE: Condescending Rice tells all...

Bot,
Its even more complex than that. For whatever reason, different people "see" the same events/ circumstances differently. Even if they try to report objectively, its a diffucult thing.
As for politicians, or politically driven people, or even "useful idiots" it gets even more difficult.
I am still waiting for agreement on the premise that lowering tax rates has always led to greater revenues flowing to the government. Liberals always ignore that point and want to point out that the deficit climbed after Regan got his lowered rates. But, as you know, thats a completely different issue as Congress controls spending. There has to be a point of diminishing returns, but I have yet to see any ratioanl discussion with agreement from all sides. It seems that it would be easy to look at tax rates and see what happened to revenues, but for whatever reason, it hasn't happened.
I wish we could agree on the facts of a situation and then discuss the implications of those facts, but we can't even agree on the facts. What hope is there for rational discussion and resolution?
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-24-2005, 09:26 AM
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RE: Condescending Rice tells all...

Quote:
MS Fowler - 4/24/2005 7:56 AM

Bot,...
I am still waiting for agreement on the premise that lowering tax rates has always led to greater revenues flowing to the government. Liberals always ignore that point and want to point out that the deficit climbed after Regan got his lowered rates. But, as you know, thats a completely different issue as Congress controls spending. There has to be a point of diminishing returns, but I have yet to see any ratioanl discussion with agreement from all sides. It seems that it would be easy to look at tax rates and see what happened to revenues, but for whatever reason, it hasn't happened....
Wasn't that the point of Laffer's Curve?
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-24-2005, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Condescending Rice tells all...

Quote:
jjl - 4/23/2005 6:59 PM

There is censorship of a form whereby 'the establishment' narrows the agenda or edits a spectrum of views to suit its ends. Some topics are seen fit for discussion, some are subtly (or blatantly) off limits. Call it censorship, call it deliberate bias, call it what you will, it boils down to intellectual dishonesty, misleading of the public and subversion of democracy. Getting hung up on definitions isn't particularly productive. In my opinion.
Extremely well said. My sentiments exactly. The fine line is being crossed.
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-25-2005, 11:27 AM
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RE: Condescending Rice tells all...

Quote:
MS Fowler - 4/23/2005 4:11 PM

This is getting ridiculous; i feel like I'm talking to a stone wall!!
In response to " when its not the whole truth its censorship" That is just a false statement! Maybe, your education in English gave you some wrong ideas. Censorship ( at least in this use of the word )is when the GOVERNMENT prevents or stops someone from exercising their freedom to speak freely. Period. There is no other use for the word.
Not getting the whole truth can be anything from simply not digging enough to get the truth, to lies and propaganda, but whatever it is it is not, by any historic definition " censorship".
You cannot "censor" anything. You can discriminate, and chose what events to report and the spin you will use to editorialize about them. You can persuade using the truth, or using complete inventions.
As I said above, censorship--in the realm of this discussion is always and only an act performed by governments.
if you want to redefine the word that's fine by me but if info is left out on purpose it's censorship even if you want to call it something else...

jjl stated it very well...

faux news is a propaganda machine.. haven't seen any news on that channel in a long time if ever.



enjoy [:)]



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