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post #1 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 06:24 AM Thread Starter
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The definition of God in a technological world

In an attempt to bring the forum up from it's record low point reached by a posting of a picture of our President kneeling before his Lord and Savior, in which our commander-in-chief gives more than lip service to the Messiah, I now attempt to start a serious thread, probably a continuation of another thread we had going over at MBShop before the book burners led by Gilly heaped our threads, most particularly those that contained any real thought, onto a virtual book-burning bonfire as he and his cadre goosestepped about, cheering the demise of intellectualism and the rise of fascism on their forum, which now, to the delight of the party cadre and their brownshirted OD leader, reposes as the chief expostion of deep thinking on the topics of hip replacement and toasters - showing us bad old free speechers a better world.

Here is the question: Modern science is causing a picture to emerge that answers the question of the ages: what is the meaning of life? It's answer is this: Genes are the meaning of life. While we as individuals experience a sad and short time on this planet, our genes have achieved immortality of sorts, living on forever, using us as essentially gut filled bags to temporarily support them on their way, discarding us for a newer model when we wear out. Our actual achievement as a species is that we have made the possible for the most complex genetic material ever created on the planet to achieve immortality, while the genes of the species we competed with for food and water or that preyed on us are being stamped out while the genes of those speicies that benefit us live on as we do.

For the last two thousand years, we have worshipped a God based on our own needs, in effect, the needs of the secondary actor in this passion play, the gene-carrier. What if God is the Gene God, and we are of little or no consequence, as he ministers to his real creation - genes? If we interpret God as the God of Genetics, doesn't that now give us a reason for all the things we attribute to him that seem incomprehensible acts of madness?

Once the conclusion is reached that our God sees as us secondary actors, doesn't concepts like Natural Selection, evolution, mutations just fall into place, just like the books of the increasingly obsolete Bible did for mankind of the earlier ages? Look at how wrong we are - we base an entire belief system on an unprovable theory that we will some how live on forever, and that those that cause our pain will be destroyed by avenging mythological beasts that will appear magically to save us, while right in front of us, it is shown in the real world how our genes have in fact accomplished this in a real and provable way - for the predators of the planet, we are the seven-horned beast of the Revelation that dispenses vengenance for our genes, who are resurrected, even tho they die. Redemption and resurrection are there for them if they follow the rules laid down by their creator, are they not?


Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #2 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 06:33 AM
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RE: The definition of God in a technological world

Good idea for a thread. Yes, genetics reveals that we (our bodies) are just the means genes use to make copies of themselves - a temporary machine built by genes for duplication. Pretty shocking, isn't it? Well, I think so anyway.

As for what this reveals about the nature of God - that's more difficult. I'll wait and see what other contribute before inserting my tuppence.

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post #3 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 06:53 AM Thread Starter
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RE: The definition of God in a technological world

It is a complex topic - perhaps Carl Jung has it precisely right with his idea of archtypes - concepts hidden deep in our subconcious by genetics and expressed by us in our cultures that have much deeper and more complex meanings than we ever realize. Isn't the human love affair with the automobile a metaphor for our real role on the planet - but that in fact we are the car and our genes the driver? And what of our ever-increasing need to be totally obsessed with and surrounded by messages of sex? Can't one say that if there is a Gene-God, than our current Human-God, who frowns on abortion and birth control, drives us to dominate other species, and pushes all cultures to maintain racial and tribal identities, is simply pushing us to be dutiful servents of our genes? Isn't our own God a servant to this greater master?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #4 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 09:30 AM
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RE: The definition of God in a technological world

While I agree with the simplicity of your premise that human nature, instinct, is focused on the viability and domination of our genetic material to thrive and multiply. I balk at the premise of manipulation of a human vehicle by a genetic master.

If there is a God, the only benefit of being God is having your creations choose obedience to your Godlike plan.

With omnipotence it would be easy to create robotic children who would always "do the right thing" and follow the prescribed program of whatever the right thing is. Just like humans desire better AI and strive to design thinking machines. God would tire of constructs that exist to live out a program or instinct like animals who rarely exhibit choice beyond basic needs. His reward is when His models choose to love Him and recognize His divinity.

If genes could exhibit choice I would be more inclined to believe your concept, what genetic driver would allow his vehicle to end itself summarily through suicide or slowly through drugs, alcohol, gluttony etc.

As far as I know, only the complete assembled fully functional package of the human being is the only construct capable of exhibiting true choice. (Note Right Wingers: this excludes vegetative state persons.)

As a result, I believe that humans represent the image of God, if there is a God.

I believe in, and love, God because I choose to.

However;
Any similarity to this response and the Matrix is a damn shame and if aliens exist then there probably is no God.

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post #5 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 09:50 AM
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RE: The definition of God in a technological world

I’ll just hold up three fingers as every time I write about this sort of thing it points to what you saying. It’s hard to understand how people can hold so strongly to older interpretations and religious texts. I’ve linked to a lot of newer things that can accept and even depend on science to find explanations of what has always been unknowable and we’re only now beginning to start that journey.
I’m looking out at four new little cottontails – they’re so funny – they’ve just discovered their hind legs work really good for jumping, but haven’t yet learned to motate with them, so they just jump.
Well it’s a chicken an egg game isn’t it? Genes evolved. We’re pretty sure that we’re the top of the food chain, but some little bug out there may change that, and sometimes when I see nature I wonder if some might just revert to the wild.
Your still talking about God as if it were a being using our definition of what a being is. Old Geppetto invisible but making stuff in his workshop kind of thing. Maybe he just spilled some chemicals or something.
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post #6 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 11:02 AM
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RE: The definition of God in a technological world

Behold! And so I present the Gene god...


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post #7 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 11:10 AM
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RE: The definition of God in a technological world

It is easier for the young to discredit a god like deity than it is for the old. Heaven forbid the masses realize we humans are not everlasting and the greatest.
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post #8 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 12:59 PM
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RE: The definition of God in a technological world

All mankind is predispositioned genetically to want to believe in an entity that is in supreme control of life and death. We hand down that predisposition genetically to our offspring because we are hardwired to do so, and human culture also promotes and teaches us how we are to go about this ritual way of thinking (religion). To "break out of the box" that is the paradigm of religion is not natural. We must train ourselves through reason and logic to see beyond these comforting, but delusional and decieving illusions. Religion is a psychological opiate of the mind that induces a SENSE of comfort and dependence, while taking you in the opposite direction of truth. Belief in something without any substantiating facts is called FAITH. That is what all religions require to work. Most people will never do this because to deny their god(s), leaves them all alone, and they are afraid of recrimination by their (so called) kind and gentle god(s) of being sent to a place where people that dare question religion are sent, HELL. (Most religions have something similar to HELL and heaven). Read this book... It will blow away your traditional way of thinking about religion! "How We Believe" By Michael Shermer Phd. http://www.nehrlich.com/book/howwebelieve.html

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post #9 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
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RE: The definition of God in a technological world

Quote:
crash9 - 4/12/2005 11:50 AM

I’ll just hold up three fingers as every time I write about this sort of thing it points to what you saying. It’s hard to understand how people can hold so strongly to older interpretations and religious texts. I’ve linked to a lot of newer things that can accept and even depend on science to find explanations of what has always been unknowable and we’re only now beginning to start that journey.
I’m looking out at four new little cottontails – they’re so funny – they’ve just discovered their hind legs work really good for jumping, but haven’t yet learned to motate with them, so they just jump.
Well it’s a chicken an egg game isn’t it? Genes evolved. We’re pretty sure that we’re the top of the food chain, but some little bug out there may change that, and sometimes when I see nature I wonder if some might just revert to the wild.
Your still talking about God as if it were a being using our definition of what a being is. Old Geppetto invisible but making stuff in his workshop kind of thing. Maybe he just spilled some chemicals or something.
What I find most interesting, is once we postulate a Gene God, we can arrive at a whole new systemology of sin and virtue, and a new system of reasoning what is the good. Cancer becomes a divine act of goodness, weeding out those who cannot survive in an increasingly polluted industrial world designed to produce ever more efficient gene-bags. Both Hitler and Jesus become saints, one demanding genetic purity while the other commands us to love one another, love our children and help the poorer gene bags to survive. The breakdown of morality, multiple marriage and frequent divorce is now seen as a good thing, not bad, since a diverse males mating with a single female insures at least some offspring will survive. And what of a gene striving, as we do, to be a better gene at a higher plane of existance - wouldn't his bible be Darwin?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #10 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
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RE: The definition of God in a technological world

Quote:
GermanStar - 4/12/2005 1:02 PM

Behold! And so I present the Gene god...

Behold! The Genie Godess!

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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