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post #51 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-20-2005, 03:27 PM Thread Starter
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RE: The definition of God in a technological world

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MBGary - 4/20/2005 4:45 PM

..... When I drop in to my local watering hole I'm also known as, the son of god! Everyone says "Jesus Christ" you back here again? When I go golfing my first T shot must be gods it always end up in heaven, I never ever could find them? and they all had god endorse them. I just got another MB SEL 560, My neighbour came over and said GOD not another one? I must be GOD?

MBGary is a Good God LOL.
They are looking for you over at the other thread.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #52 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-20-2005, 05:05 PM
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RE: The definition of God in a technological world

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kvining - 4/20/2005 2:30 PM
Because DNA, over millions of years, has prefected the perfect vehicles to carry themselves into eternity. Why are we here? To do just that, and only that.
OK, maybe not pertinent, but this reminds me of Bill Hicks saying that we're all just viruses with shoes.
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post #53 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-20-2005, 06:14 PM
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RE: The definition of God in a technological world

Interesting post, Bot. Perhaps your description of a "waste of time" could be explained in that masturbatory exercises are usually for instant personal gratification without the need for follow-up commitment.

Discussions of this sort are for pure diversion.

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post #54 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-20-2005, 10:07 PM
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RE: The definition of God in a technological world

"rational people" well I assume you are not talking about yourself. With the conspiracy theories and the FU to those who give you back lash.

I consider myself pretty rational. You claim that science and religion are at odds but that is truly not the case. It is just what you have chosen to accept. At this point science can not prove or disprove Christianity. First science would tell us that there are likely many planets in the universe that can support life and could be inhabited. Now that science has finally started to identify orbiting planets. Scientist are saying it is possibly that Earth is unique in its life supporting orbit.

So basically, all Christianity is some crude barbaric religion whose time has now come. All of the elites are going to lead us into some new superior realm of thinking?

I guess the difference is that you don't need to believe for my faith to work. There seems to be some desire or need for Christian beliefs in general to be ridiculed. Which is Ok. If that is what is needed, go right ahead. It doesn't change my belief or how I live my life. All I can do is be an example and a witness. I am not claming to be perfect and infallible either.
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post #55 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-20-2005, 10:26 PM
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RE: The definition of God in a technological world

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Robschaef - 4/20/2005 9:07 PM

You claim that science and religion are at odds but that is truly not the case. It is just what you have chosen to accept.
You're right -- science and Western religion are at odds -- big difference. A woman made from a man's rib, a 6,000 year old universe, existance of an actual physical heaven, the ridiculous tale of Noah's ark, denial of evolution despite overwhelming evidence, the list goes on. How could you possibly not see conflict?

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #56 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-21-2005, 01:08 AM
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RE: The definition of God in a technological world

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post #57 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-21-2005, 05:43 AM
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RE: The definition of God in a technological world

Quote:
Robschaef - 4/21/2005 5:07 AM

"rational people" well I assume you are not talking about yourself. With the conspiracy theories and the FU to those who give you back lash.

I consider myself pretty rational. You claim that science and religion are at odds but that is truly not the case. It is just what you have chosen to accept. At this point science can not prove or disprove Christianity. First science would tell us that there are likely many planets in the universe that can support life and could be inhabited. Now that science has finally started to identify orbiting planets. Scientist are saying it is possibly that Earth is unique in its life supporting orbit.

So basically, all Christianity is some crude barbaric religion whose time has now come. All of the elites are going to lead us into some new superior realm of thinking?

I guess the difference is that you don't need to believe for my faith to work. There seems to be some desire or need for Christian beliefs in general to be ridiculed. Which is Ok. If that is what is needed, go right ahead. It doesn't change my belief or how I live my life. All I can do is be an example and a witness. I am not claming to be perfect and infallible either.
'At this point science can not prove or disprove Christianity'.

This reminds me of Russell's teapot orbiting the sun. Some people might believe that there is a teapot orbiting the sun, but it is difficult to show them that this is false. They go on claiming there is a teapot in orbit.

Science *does* say that there is no objective evidence to support the 'violation of physical laws' part of Christianity (e.g. miracles).


'Scientist are saying it is possibly that Earth is unique in its life supporting orbit.'

No - the consensus is that life is abundant everywhere in the universe. It is just very far away.



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post #58 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-21-2005, 06:08 AM Thread Starter
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RE: The definition of God in a technological world

Quote:
jpb5151 - 4/20/2005 7:05 PM

Quote:
kvining - 4/20/2005 2:30 PM
Because DNA, over millions of years, has prefected the perfect vehicles to carry themselves into eternity. Why are we here? To do just that, and only that.
OK, maybe not pertinent, but this reminds me of Bill Hicks saying that we're all just viruses with shoes.
Personnally, I was like Betrand Russell's description, the we are all "interesting blobs of protoplasm, bobbing about the place."

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #59 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-21-2005, 06:44 AM Thread Starter
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RE: The definition of God in a technological world

Quote:
jjl - 4/21/2005 7:43 AM

Quote:
Robschaef - 4/21/2005 5:07 AM

"rational people" well I assume you are not talking about yourself. With the conspiracy theories and the FU to those who give you back lash.

I consider myself pretty rational. You claim that science and religion are at odds but that is truly not the case. It is just what you have chosen to accept. At this point science can not prove or disprove Christianity. First science would tell us that there are likely many planets in the universe that can support life and could be inhabited. Now that science has finally started to identify orbiting planets. Scientist are saying it is possibly that Earth is unique in its life supporting orbit.

So basically, all Christianity is some crude barbaric religion whose time has now come. All of the elites are going to lead us into some new superior realm of thinking?

I guess the difference is that you don't need to believe for my faith to work. There seems to be some desire or need for Christian beliefs in general to be ridiculed. Which is Ok. If that is what is needed, go right ahead. It doesn't change my belief or how I live my life. All I can do is be an example and a witness. I am not claming to be perfect and infallible either.
'At this point science can not prove or disprove Christianity'.

This reminds me of Russell's teapot orbiting the sun. Some people might believe that there is a teapot orbiting the sun, but it is difficult to show them that this is false. They go on claiming there is a teapot in orbit.

Science *does* say that there is no objective evidence to support the 'violation of physical laws' part of Christianity (e.g. miracles).


'Scientist are saying it is possibly that Earth is unique in its life supporting orbit.'

No - the consensus is that life is abundant everywhere in the universe. It is just very far away.


I read an interesting piece recently where the author asserted that after centuries of internal conflict within Christianity and Islam over the minutue of dogma, science has now forced a new schism - that between orthodox believers who insist that religion requires a suspension of rational belief and a support of magic, demons, angels, and other assorted imaginery creatures as reality, and those who now are ready to admit that much of religion is preposterous. It is leading to the odd alliance between Evangelical Protestants and conservative Catholics, Apocalypse nut cases and conservative Jews, and probably ultimately to the alliance of Islamic Mullahs and American theocrats. No longer is it about what myth you choose to believe, it is now about whether you have made decision to believe myth in the first place. Many, many of these people, who the author called "Believers in Exile", seek a spirtual belief that can be based in rationality, and currently no traditional church offers it - many attempt to, but are stymied because they are locked in internal battles that reflect the current schism between those who wish to live in a 4 billion year old world and those who chose to live on a 6,000 year old fantasy planet. Its a little prejudicial to refer to these people as "elites", a right wing term that is supposed to mean "bad in some way", when the real truth is there are millions who are totally disillusioned with the requirement that they believe in mythology in order to take part in a particular religion. The statement "At this point science can not prove or disprove Christianity" is quite untrue - in fact science has continually disproven Christianity for centuries, in fact what we have seen is even more than a disproof of Christianity, it is a constant chipping away of what is "of God" and what is actually naturally occuring events. Winds are not caused by the exhaling of God, lighting is not thrown from the sky by him, and geology shows no worldwide flood occurred, but it does show that a major one occurred when the Dardenelles collapsed and caused the the Mediterrean to flow into the Black Sea about 5,000 years ago, where I would guess some lucky farmer named Noah was able to get his sheep and goats on a boat. Man in the past defined God in terms of the world he saw around him - the unexplainable great floods, earthquakes, unusual natural events - how now do we do the same thing in terms of the world we now see around us, where we realize that our choice has become different from the ancients, who were not required to suspend rational belief in terms of their world - to a man 3,000 years ago, the idea that the sun revolved on the earth was perfectly logical - our choice is between maintaining some type of personal integrity by calling poppycock what it is, or in believing fairy tales, is it not? If the myths are removed, can a belief in God be maintained?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #60 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-21-2005, 08:51 AM
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RE: The definition of God in a technological world

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/...lood.finds.ap/

Here is a link to CNN that talks about new evidence of the flood. If the world that was known at the time was completely covered with water, wouldn't that mean that the world was covered with water to that person or people? Weather every single area of land was covered with water is really irrelevant.

"Robert Jastrow, founder of NASA’s Goddard Institute and author of God and the Astronomers, thinks the relatively recent discovery of the universe’s birth in a Big Bang has played a large part in this rethinking of the cosmos. It means “there are limits to scientific inquiry,� because it suggests a beginning and a creator—something science can’t explain. The situation, Jastrow says, is as if a group of scientists and astronomers are climbing up a range of mountain peaks, and when they come to the highest peak, they are “greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.�

Here is an interesting article that says a recent survey shows that 40% of scientists believe in God in some form. Also, famous scientist who did.

http://www.theamericanenterprise.org...cle_detail.asp
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