What type of democracy is in Iraq? - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-03-2005, 01:32 PM Thread Starter
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What type of democracy is in Iraq?

What type of democracy is in Iraq? Here we elect all our members, but over there, they elect a party block and the block elects its officials.

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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-03-2005, 01:40 PM
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RE: What type of democracy is in Iraq?

It is no kind of democracy. It is at about the same stage of democracy as we were after England granted us independence but before the several states devolved their independence to a central government, the first time (remember, it took us two tries to form a stable government).

The question that I have no clue as to an answer is whether they will ever form any sort of stable government or whether the complete dissolution of Iraq will result in a like dissolution of portions of Iran, Turkey, Syria, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan. Thence a regional multifaction military-ethnic-religious war. I think that regional war will be the long-term outcome, unless Iraq can form a stable democracy of some sort.
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-03-2005, 02:38 PM
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RE: What type of democracy is in Iraq?

...gunbarrel democracy.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-03-2005, 07:11 PM
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RE: What type of democracy is in Iraq?

Sorta like asking what shade of red the sky is...

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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-04-2005, 07:21 AM
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RE: What type of democracy is in Iraq?

At this point, democracy in Iraq is an utter failure. It is not at the point the US was in the early days, because the US was not a tribal society. We were guided by men of the Enlightenment, men who had no tribal affliations and who, contrary to the assertions of today's idiots, had little use for religion. They had a homogenious society that came from the same legal tradition of English Common Law, a tradition that had matured over a thousand years before Jefferson even existed. Iraq has none of this. It has traditions that have evolved in each tribe over the same time period, and they conflict with each other. India and Pakistan, Bosnia and Serbia, Russia and all the rest of the former USSR, all of this is a repeat of the same - without an initial framework and point of reference that all share, a democracy cannot begin. Once it is functioning, and the trappings of tribalism begin to fade, then a society can adjust to the compromises necessary to allow disparate groups to co-exist. This is why democracy came easily to the Germans and Japanese, and it will not come easily in Iraq. The entire thing is the stupidest thing we as a nation have ever done.


Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-04-2005, 11:20 AM
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RE: What type of democracy is in Iraq?

Yeah, it's not a perfect analogy by any stretch other than it takes time for a new gov to form, expecially during a brutal war.

Back in the 18th century, the whole western world predicted the USA would fail, that common people could not run their own gov--common people haven't the necessary breeding to rule. That is an argument familiar to us today, from people who say the Afghans, Iraqis, Lebanese _____ (fill in the blank here) cannot form a viable democracy. It may be true that they cannot. But damned if I am going to let my bigoted condescension prevent me from hoping for the best for all those people.

I understand that the folks in the big tent just selected a president. They still haven't decided on PM & jr PM's. It will interesting to see whether they can pull this off.

Perhaps some genius will send me his time machine or some mystic, his crystal ball. Otherwise I'll just keep an open mind, hope for the best, and see how things unfold in due course.


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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-04-2005, 12:28 PM
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RE: What type of democracy is in Iraq?

Well, dude we are all hoping for that. The only difference is that some of us realize that the oil oligarchs and the neo-cons have a vested interest in maintaining the fictional country of Iraq as the permenant blood bath that it is and always will be. If we are to use our own experience, the experience of the English, the Germans, the Japanese, the negative experience of India and Yugoslovia as a guide, the key to the establishment of democracy is to create a society where elements that wish to slaughter each other are excluded so the peaceful may pursue the work of democracy. The big question should be: Why WASN'T Iraq partitioned into zones where peaceful elections could be held?


Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-04-2005, 05:09 PM
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RE: What type of democracy is in Iraq?

Corporate democracy. Same as its originator.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-04-2005, 06:06 PM
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RE: What type of democracy is in Iraq?

Quote:
kvining - 4/4/2005 2:28 PM

Well, dude we are all hoping for that. The only difference is that some of us realize that the oil oligarchs and the neo-cons have a vested interest in maintaining the fictional country of Iraq as the permenant blood bath that it is and always will be. If we are to use our own experience, the experience of the English, the Germans, the Japanese, the negative experience of India and Yugoslovia as a guide, the key to the establishment of democracy is to create a society where elements that wish to slaughter each other are excluded so the peaceful may pursue the work of democracy. The big question should be: Why WASN'T Iraq partitioned into zones where peaceful elections could be held?
Because it was apparently unnecessary? They seem to be inching toward dmocracy as a whole state. They may make it. I hope so. See, often folks who speak the same language and share a long history still don't get along. They prefer their independent states. But in the interest of self-preservation and a common future for their descendents, they compromise and put aside their differences in order to form a more perfect union.

That's what we did and it held together fairly coherently until the fundamental incongruency of the various states' visions brought about the bloodiest war in our history. It could happen with Iraq. Heck, I'm betting it probably will happen. They may be better for it. Or they may be worse for it. Or it may be a wash. Unless it threatens our national interest, I don't care what they do.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-06-2005, 11:25 AM
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RE: What type of democracy is in Iraq?

Democracy was no easy step for post war Germany. There were insurgents there too. The first city mayor installed by the Allies was killed by the Nazi’s. The US made a big mistake in not using any part of the Bathe party. As the Allies used former Nazi’s to stabilize the post war government.
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