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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-29-2005, 02:08 PM
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RE: Anyone read 'Mein Kampf'?

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79-300SD - 3/29/2005 2:19 PM

Hitler has the right idea..................

the only problem was his blaming the jews for everything when it was the Gypsys that were responsible for everything.
un freaking believable

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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-29-2005, 02:30 PM
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RE: Anyone read 'Mein Kampf'?

I was thinking of putting up a poll about which poster here is the biggest closet Nazi, but it seemed so unnecessary when we all aleady know who will win.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-29-2005, 02:44 PM
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RE: Anyone read 'Mein Kampf'?

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azimuth - 3/29/2005 3:20 PM

Up to now, I was not interested in Hitler's stuggles as apparently illustrated in Mein Kampf. Now I'm curious but the disdain I have for his movement will most likely keep me disinterested....same goes for Mao's, Stalin's, Pol Pot's and Saddam's Kampf.

The posts on this thead and the opinions in them that I've read are revealing and educational though. I always appreciate the ideas I find here whether I agree with them or not.
It really is a misconception to think of the book as a description of Hitler's struggles. "Struggle" or "kampf" is a central concept of Nazi philosophy. The society is divided into groups that each has a "struggle" - the factory worker struggles against the monthly quota for steel while the factory struggles to meet the quota for guns. Labor organizations and military-industrial complex organizations are divided into "fronts". In other words, the model for society is perpetual war. Hitler's "kampf", as German leader, is the struggle for national supremecy and against Jewish/Communist world domination. He actually speaks very little of his own struggles. He present his "world view"- a definition of the struggles Germany faces (one totally freakin bizarre world view, for sure), and from this he defines the struggles for the nation, on down to the last man. It is obviously a pretty good model, because Texas is bigger than Germany, and I doubt Texas could give the rest of the world one hell of a world war. You got to hand it to the nasty bastard, he almost pulled it off.

Another interesting theory as to why he failed is in his view of women. Hitler refused to allow them to be factory workers until late in the war - he wanted little German baby factories being nice little homemakers. Their "struggle" was to produce soldiers for the Reich. If he had used them as skilled factory labor the way the Soviets did, he might have done better. But his real downfall was his own military stupidity in Russia. He took command away from some of the best generals that ever existed, and screwed himself royally.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-29-2005, 03:28 PM
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RE: Anyone read 'Mein Kampf'?

Quote:
79-300SD - 3/29/2005 2:19 PM

Hitler has the right idea..................

the only problem was his blaming the jews for everything when it was the Gypsys that were responsible for everything.
Every race on Earth has been blamed for everything. Including several 2005 texts which blame the USA for everything.

What you find is that there are two aspects to persecution. The culprit and the victim. In this case it becomes the victim who is constantly demonstating that they were the victim.

This serves a purpose in the general scheme of things. It retains the social glue that binds sectors of society closer together and defeats the "it never happened" movement.

As you may recall, the 9-11 videos bind Americans and defeat the "you deserved it" movement. It remains to be seen if perpetuity is something which belongs to a author or the audience. Is resonance the same thing as memory ?

Ever since we stopped burning books in the 15th Century we have still not come to grips with singular tracks of thought. So of the role models demonstrated by Federalist politicians prior to the American Civil War are not acceptable to women today. Yet it never prevented George Washington from doing great things.

I personally feel that we owe it to ourselves to be aware of the social spirits - zeitgeist - which is woven into social fabrics but only visible in books.

We can read many things into Hitlers book but he was by that stage a paranoid and disfunctional empathist. A short visit to any mental institution will bring you close to people who at times may appear to be mystics.

I once met a man who was going insane and quite aware of his decline. He also had the most profound physiological powers of body electricity and hypnotic suggestion. Reminded me of what could be possible if he wanted to be inherently evil.

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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-29-2005, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Anyone read 'Mein Kampf'?

Quote:
kvining - 3/29/2005 4:44 PM

Quote:
azimuth - 3/29/2005 3:20 PM

Up to now, I was not interested in Hitler's stuggles as apparently illustrated in Mein Kampf. Now I'm curious but the disdain I have for his movement will most likely keep me disinterested....same goes for Mao's, Stalin's, Pol Pot's and Saddam's Kampf.

The posts on this thead and the opinions in them that I've read are revealing and educational though. I always appreciate the ideas I find here whether I agree with them or not.
It really is a misconception to think of the book as a description of Hitler's struggles. "Struggle" or "kampf" is a central concept of Nazi philosophy. The society is divided into groups that each has a "struggle" - the factory worker struggles against the monthly quota for steel while the factory struggles to meet the quota for guns. Labor organizations and military-industrial complex organizations are divided into "fronts". In other words, the model for society is perpetual war. Hitler's "kampf", as German leader, is the struggle for national supremecy and against Jewish/Communist world domination. He actually speaks very little of his own struggles. He present his "world view"- a definition of the struggles Germany faces (one totally freakin bizarre world view, for sure), and from this he defines the struggles for the nation, on down to the last man. It is obviously a pretty good model, because Texas is bigger than Germany, and I doubt Texas could give the rest of the world one hell of a world war. You got to hand it to the nasty bastard, he almost pulled it off.

Another interesting theory as to why he failed is in his view of women. Hitler refused to allow them to be factory workers until late in the war - he wanted little German baby factories being nice little homemakers. Their "struggle" was to produce soldiers for the Reich. If he had used them as skilled factory labor the way the Soviets did, he might have done better. But his real downfall was his own military stupidity in Russia. He took command away from some of the best generals that ever existed, and screwed himself royally.
A literal translation of 'Jihad' is 'struggle'. Draw your own conclusions.
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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-29-2005, 07:18 PM
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RE: Anyone read 'Mein Kampf'?

Quote:
kvining - 3/29/2005 4:44 PM

Quote:
azimuth - 3/29/2005 3:20 PM

Up to now, I was not interested in Hitler's stuggles as apparently illustrated in Mein Kampf. Now I'm curious but the disdain I have for his movement will most likely keep me disinterested....same goes for Mao's, Stalin's, Pol Pot's and Saddam's Kampf.

The posts on this thead and the opinions in them that I've read are revealing and educational though. I always appreciate the ideas I find here whether I agree with them or not.
It really is a misconception to think of the book as a description of Hitler's struggles. "Struggle" or "kampf" is a central concept of Nazi philosophy. The society is divided into groups that each has a "struggle" - the factory worker struggles against the monthly quota for steel while the factory struggles to meet the quota for guns. Labor organizations and military-industrial complex organizations are divided into "fronts". In other words, the model for society is perpetual war. Hitler's "kampf", as German leader, is the struggle for national supremecy and against Jewish/Communist world domination. He actually speaks very little of his own struggles. He present his "world view"- a definition of the struggles Germany faces (one totally freakin bizarre world view, for sure), and from this he defines the struggles for the nation, on down to the last man. It is obviously a pretty good model, because Texas is bigger than Germany, and I doubt Texas could give the rest of the world one hell of a world war. You got to hand it to the nasty bastard, he almost pulled it off.

Another interesting theory as to why he failed is in his view of women. Hitler refused to allow them to be factory workers until late in the war - he wanted little German baby factories being nice little homemakers. Their "struggle" was to produce soldiers for the Reich. If he had used them as skilled factory labor the way the Soviets did, he might have done better. But his real downfall was his own military stupidity in Russia. He took command away from some of the best generals that ever existed, and screwed himself royally.
Thanks for taking the time to answer or rather share your understanding of Hitler's work. I imagine if I read it I'd gleen some valuable insight relative to his movement and failures/successes. I just can't bring myself to plow through it yet.

You are right in this regard also. Though you don't literally portray it in words typed, the point is, there is wisdom in understanding the enemy of your fathers to help vanquish the enemies you face today. I believe the kind of evil that the Third Reich ultimatley embodied is ever present. Once conquered, it takes the form of another oppressive entity. I belive there is evil in this world. I believe there is righteousness in this world. Though you and I would follow a different track to get there, I think the latter is our mutual goal.

Party on....albeit smokeless, alcohol-less and drugless.[:D]

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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-29-2005, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Anyone read 'Mein Kampf'?

One interesting component of Hitler's evil is that it is not an amoral evil, but a moral evil. He is concerned with people living lives of dignity and honor. He thinks this can only be achieved by putting the State in the center of our lives. It allows us to transcend ourselves and live for a higher good than individual self-interest. Sacrifice for the State is a noble ideal. This drives his hatred of leftism which, by its internationalism, undermines the claim to the superiority of the German State.
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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-29-2005, 11:31 PM
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RE: Anyone read 'Mein Kampf'?

i looked today for the first time at the "off topic" forum, and was shocked to see this little german political discussion going on. as far as nazi's are concerned, i, and most other germans consider THEM to be sub-human, based on the senseless murder that took place. HOWEVER, also, i, and also most germans (in the young generation 15-30) agree with most of the non-murderous political doctrine of hitler. ie, the whole "the german people are superior to other europeans" ideal. i realize at this point i am treading a fine line here, but as this seems so far to be a purely open minded informational discussion, i will continue, not for venting european politics at you, but simply to put out some information that may be not readily available to most. much of these feelings in germany have "sprouted" with the coming of the euro. it is a fact that germany is the richest country using euro. it is also a fact that the german economy has suffered DEARLY due to the "one currency" which allows poorer countries to drag us down in the world markets numbers, as they have debt, and small GNP's. this has caused prices to rise on everything, making many germans disgusted by it, and at least mentally "prepare for war". for example, my aunt renate in Nuernberg has almost 75,000 Deutche Marken is bills hidden in her apartment, so does my grandfather, and MANY others there as well. all under the idea that when the "upcoming" war starts, all euro will be worthless, and only Deutsche Mark will still be able to buy food. this may never happen, but this is the general state of mind at the moment. u should here some of the drunken discussions that take place daily in the guesthouses. everyone's fed up, had enough of being dragged downwards, as the prices rise, jobs and wages are lost, and taxes rise every week. this inspires them to imagine the idea of "The Empire", and arouses feelings that during the time of "the russians are coming any day now to kill us all" never would have even been thought. due to this, the NPD (Nationalistische Partei Deutschlands) (the same party as in hitlers time, just with a new name) is on the rise, up to 6 or 8 percent in the parliament. this worries many, as its a bad sign of things to come. the next 10 years should be fairly interesting for me, as far as whats gonna be going on here, and what will happen in germany. and the EU. maybe itll grow stronger, maybe it'll fall aprt. who knows. so anyways, as far as a poliician is concerned hitler was a great leader. militarily, also great, before his amphetamin addiction took over. unfortunately he had to go and ruin everything, by angering the world nations, and committing mass murder. seems all the great leaders end up screwing themselves. (i just watched about Ivan the Terrible on the History Channel, also thinking of napoleon bonaparte, and Coronado.) among others. will be interesting to see how this discussion will progress over the next few weeks. am very surprised at the extense of some of u guys knowledge over all the details. guess im not the only guy who thinks reading books and watching History Channel is cool! :)
post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-29-2005, 11:36 PM
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RE: Anyone read 'Mein Kampf'?

oh yeah, tell me about this downfall movie. i'v never heard of it. whats it about/how old is it etc. thanks.
post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-30-2005, 02:47 AM
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RE: Anyone read 'Mein Kampf'?

interesting how nazism ideals are based on struggles within society.

interesting how hitler hated marxist ideals and linked them with jews.

interesting how marx was a conflict theorist which states that members of society are in conflict with one another.

interesting how struggle and conflict kind of go along the same lines.

wierd how political beliefs follow trends.
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