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post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-14-2005, 04:40 PM Thread Starter
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California legalizes Gay Marriage

This ought to get the old Christians jumping:

California gay-marriage ban ruled unconstitutional
Eagerly awaited opinion likely to be appealed
Monday, March 14, 2005 Posted: 4:08 PM EST (2108 GMT)


SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- A judge ruled Monday that California's ban on gay marriage is unconstitutional, saying the state could no longer justify limiting marriage to a man and a woman.

In the eagerly awaited opinion likely to be appealed to the state's highest court, San Francisco County Superior Court Judge Richard Kramer said that withholding marriage licenses from gays and lesbians is unconstitutional.

"It appears that no rational purpose exists for limiting marriage in this state to opposite-sex partners," Kramer wrote.

The judge wrote that the state's historical definition of marriage, by itself, cannot justify the denial of equal protection for gays and lesbians.

"The state's protracted denial of equal protection cannot be justified simply because such constitutional violation has become traditional," Kramer wrote.

Kramer ruled in lawsuits brought by the city of San Francisco and a dozen same-sex couples last March. The suits were brought after the California Supreme Court halted a four-week marriage spree that Mayor Gavin Newsom had initiated in February 2004 when he directed city officials to issue marriage licenses to gays and lesbians in defiance of state law.

The plaintiffs said withholding marriage licenses from gays and lesbians trespasses on the civil rights all citizens are guaranteed under the California Constitution.

Robert Tyler, an attorney with the conservative Alliance Defense Fund, said the group would appeal Kramer's ruling.

Attorney General Bill Lockyer has said in the past that he expected the matter eventually would have to be settled by the California Supreme Court.

A pair of bills pending before the California Legislature would put a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage on the November ballot. If California voters approve such an amendment, as those in 13 other states did last year, that would put the issue out of the control of lawmakers and the courts. (Full story)

In a hearing in December, Senior Assistant Attorney General Louis Mauro acknowledged that California is "a leader in affording rights" to same-sex couples. But he maintained that the state has a defensible reason for upholding the existing definition of marriage as part of an important tradition.

"State law says there is a fundamental right to marry," he told Kramer. "We concede that. State law also says marriage is a contract between a man and a woman."

But a deputy city attorney, Therese Stewart, criticized "the so-called tradition argument," saying the meaning of marriage has evolved over time. As examples, she cited now-overturned bans on marriage by interracial couples, or laws that treated wives as a husband's property.

Kramer is the fourth trial court judge in recent months to decide that the right to marry and its attendant benefits must be extended to same-sex couples.

Two Washington state judges, ruling last summer in separate cases, held that prohibiting same-sex marriage violates that state's constitution, and on February 4, a judge in Manhattan ruled in favor of five gay couples who had been denied marriage licenses by New York City.

That ruling applies only in the city but could extend statewide if upheld on appeal. Similar cases are pending in trial courts in Connecticut and Maryland.



Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

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post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-14-2005, 05:48 PM
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RE: California legalizes Gay Marriage

I can't wait to hear what Arnold make another Girlymen comment. :)

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post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-14-2005, 07:14 PM
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RE: California legalizes Gay Marriage

The Massachusetts Supreme Court already reached the same decision, while the NJ Supreme Court went the other way. Although Bush campaigned on a constitutional amendment along the lines of the Defense of Marriage Act, he has said that he will not actively seek it . . . which is a signal that some other part of the Right wing better do the heavy lifting.
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post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-14-2005, 09:52 PM
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RE: California legalizes Gay Marriage

I wonder if they could make it legal to allow a man to have 5 wifes.[8D][8D][8D][:D][:D]

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post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-14-2005, 10:39 PM
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RE: California legalizes Gay Marriage

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tiggerfink - 3/14/2005 11:52 PM

I wonder if they could make it legal to allow a man to have 5 wifes.[8D][8D][8D][:D][:D]
That's cruel and unusual punishment. [:D]
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post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-14-2005, 10:55 PM
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RE: California legalizes Gay Marriage

Quote:
kvining - 3/14/2005 6:40 PM

This ought to get the old Christians jumping:

California gay-marriage ban ruled unconstitutional
Eagerly awaited opinion likely to be appealed
Monday, March 14, 2005 Posted: 4:08 PM EST (2108 GMT)

Is it only the Christians who disapprove of gay marriage and teach of the immorality of such?

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports....And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education...reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principles"

George Washington, farewell address.

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post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-14-2005, 11:04 PM
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RE: California legalizes Gay Marriage

Actually a lot of Christians feel it is immoral for the state to deny people equal protection under the law.

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post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-15-2005, 07:11 AM
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RE: California legalizes Gay Marriage

Quote:
azimuth - 3/15/2005 12:55 AM

Is it only the Christians who disapprove of gay marriage and teach of the immorality of such?

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports....And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education...reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principles"

George Washington, farewell address.

That wonderful statement hinges on Reason and Experience.

Is there evidence that religion has helped political prosperity?

What experience is there to show that a government will fail if religion isn't a pillar of it's foundation?

Every monumental failure of governments worldwide I can think of has had religious undercurrents, leaders love to invoke a deity when they are sending their enemies to meet their respective makers.

Maybe the problem is false spirituality, invoking the divine to justify or obscure bullshit...

Congratulations to California for getting it right.

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post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-15-2005, 09:37 AM Thread Starter
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RE: California legalizes Gay Marriage

Equating homosexuality as "immoral" is part of the problem. It not only assumes people engage in it for illicit pleasure, as if it were a vice like drinking or gambling, it totally ignores the fact that homosexuality is evident in the animal world, and is a natural, innate part of a homosexual's being. its not "immoral", it hurts no one.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-15-2005, 09:45 AM
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RE: California legalizes Gay Marriage

Quote:
kvining - 3/15/2005 9:37 AM

Equating homosexuality as "immoral" is part of the problem. It not only assumes people engage in it for illicit pleasure, as if it were a vice like drinking or gambling, it totally ignores the fact that homosexuality is evident in the animal world, and is a natural, innate part of a homosexual's being. its not "immoral", it hurts no one.
I once knew a transsexual cannabis plant...

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