Do you want the USA to police the world? - Page 6 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #51 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-13-2005, 09:23 AM
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RE: Do you want the USA to police the world?

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Joe Bauers - 3/13/2005 11:08 AM


At some point, as the economy at home tanks and as jobs continue to be out-sourced, the dim bulb of understanding may yet light up in the American consciousness, and they may grow weary of sending so much of our youth and treasure to this, our 51st state.

Joe B.
The argument of whether Iraq will benefit from a Democracy or whether we are simply a closet dictatorship under the guise of democracy will eventually play itself out. Twenty years from now we will see a democracy, or we will see another dictatorship. I'm inclined to believe the latter, unless we leave the toops there for the next 20 years.

I'd like to emphasize what Joe was stating above. All of you who think we should be making this valiant effort to police the world have lost sight of the cost. Not one of you have come up with a solid way to pay for this effort. Not one of you have a plan to provide the funds to perform this police action. And, if by some chance you figure out how to pay for the Iraq disaster, then using your approach to policing the world, please do tell how you will provide the funds for the next invasion.

This one small police action against an enemy with little or no resources will cause irreparable damage to the U.S. economy. Any other, similar action in another country might bring us close to bankruptcy. Our current condition where money is pouring out the door is going to result in significantly higher interest rates to lure foreign investment in the debt. This is going to keep the economy in check for the considerable future. You can thank your President for this.

All of this bullshit about whether we should be putting a democracy in Iraq or not can simply be curtailed with the conclusion that we cannot afford it.


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post #52 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-13-2005, 09:30 AM
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RE: Do you want the USA to police the world?

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GermanStar - 3/13/2005 10:54 AM

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Botnst - 3/13/2005 8:30 AM

Therefore, supporting the notion that people choose enslavement by dictatorship is exactly analogous to old-time southern slaveowners pointing-out that when queestioned, slaves said their owners treated then kindley, suh. See, they like slavery. They're too ignorant to deal with the responsibilities of citizenship; they've always lived in slavery, it's their natural state; It takes a stern yet benevolent leader (master) to care for them; their whole culture has evolved into slavery; etc.

What would you call northern sympathizers of slave-owning southerners? The northerners themselves didn't own slaves....
Why support what you condemn? In this instance, we are the collective slave-owner, and the Iraqi people are the slaves. We encourage them to elect Iraqi liaisons to our government and call it democracy -- it ludicrous. Only when all outside influence is removed can this be called a democracy. Democracies, by definition, come from within, not without.

It may be said that we are attempting to set them on a path toward democracy, but that path is a far cry from the achievement of the goal -- a very far cry.
Reach for the stars and find effluent.

Is the USA free of all outside influence when we hold elections? Let's all ask an expert. Hmmm, how about AlGore?
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post #53 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-13-2005, 09:34 AM
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RE: Do you want the USA to police the world?

Quote:
Brian Carlton - 3/13/2005 11:23 AM

Quote:
Joe Bauers - 3/13/2005 11:08 AM


At some point, as the economy at home tanks and as jobs continue to be out-sourced, the dim bulb of understanding may yet light up in the American consciousness, and they may grow weary of sending so much of our youth and treasure to this, our 51st state.

Joe B.
The argument of whether Iraq will benefit from a Democracy or whether we are simply a closet dictatorship under the guise of democracy will eventually play itself out. Twenty years from now we will see a democracy, or we will see another dictatorship. I'm inclined to believe the latter, unless we leave the toops there for the next 20 years.

...
After 50 years of our oppressive military occupation and iron-fisted rule, when we finally get our troops out of Europe, European countries too, will be democracies.
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post #54 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-13-2005, 10:57 AM
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RE: Do you want the USA to police the world?

Yes, the best thing the EU could do would be to imprint a Vibram soled pattern on Unkie Sam's butt-crack. We have no biz keeping bases in Europe, or anywhere else for that matter. We pump billions into their economy, while closing bases back at home. NATO no longer has any plausible rationale for existence--stop the madness.
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post #55 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-13-2005, 11:45 AM
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RE: Do you want the USA to police the world?

Quote:
MetaPhysicalPajamas - 3/13/2005 9:03 AM

Quote:
GermanStar - 3/13/2005 10:54 AM

In this instance, we are the collective slave-owner, and the Iraqi people are the slaves. We encourage them to elect Iraqi liaisons to our government and call it democracy -- it ludicrous. Only when all outside influence is removed can this be called a democracy. Democracies, by definition, come from within, not without.
By the same argument citizens of the United States of America are also slaves.
Yes, slavery = sovereignty -- I'm sure you're right. I don't doubt you for a minute, but do tell -- exactly which foreign government holds sway over me?

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #56 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-13-2005, 12:40 PM
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RE: Do you want the USA to police the world?

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Brian Carlton - 3/13/2005 11:23 AM

All of this bullshit about whether we should be putting a democracy in Iraq or not can simply be curtailed with the conclusion that we cannot afford it.
There is also the question of whether we actually can given any amount of money?
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post #57 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-13-2005, 01:00 PM
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RE: Do you want the USA to police the world?

Quote:
GermanStar - 3/13/2005 1:45 PM

Quote:
MetaPhysicalPajamas - 3/13/2005 9:03 AM

Quote:
GermanStar - 3/13/2005 10:54 AM

In this instance, we are the collective slave-owner, and the Iraqi people are the slaves. We encourage them to elect Iraqi liaisons to our government and call it democracy -- it ludicrous. Only when all outside influence is removed can this be called a democracy. Democracies, by definition, come from within, not without.
By the same argument citizens of the United States of America are also slaves.
Yes, slavery = sovereignty -- I'm sure you're right. I don't doubt you for a minute, but do tell -- exactly which foreign government holds sway over me?
Two governments that have recently sacked the US coffers and subverted policy contrary to the interests of the US citizens would be China and Israel. This has been done for the benefit of the few at the expense of the many.

And speaking of Iraq, Israeli interests are to some degree responsible for US troop involvement in Iraq.

No country is an island politically, there will always be interdependencies but when systems are subverted across international borders to steal from a population there is a problem with representation. I don't think the modern version of the US government is a good model for spreading democracy. Now granted I cannot name a better one but maybe we need to fix the original before we go cloning it around the world.

BTW, why does everyone call the US a democracy? Aren't we really a constitutional republic? I remember reading about how the original framers feared democracy as much as dictatorship. The despotism of the masses? This problem would be amplified by modern communications.
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post #58 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-13-2005, 02:12 PM
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RE: Do you want the USA to police the world?

Do I want the USA to police the world? No. However, we apparently must.

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post #59 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-13-2005, 02:23 PM
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RE: Do you want the USA to police the world?

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MetaPhysicalPajamas - 3/13/2005 1:00 PM

Two governments that have recently sacked the US coffers and subverted policy contrary to the interests of the US citizens would be China and Israel. This has been done for the benefit of the few at the expense of the many.

And speaking of Iraq, Israeli interests are to some degree responsible for US troop involvement in Iraq.

No country is an island politically, there will always be interdependencies but when systems are subverted across international borders to steal from a population there is a problem with representation. I don't think the modern version of the US government is a good model for spreading democracy. Now granted I cannot name a better one but maybe we need to fix the original before we go cloning it around the world.

BTW, why does everyone call the US a democracy? Aren't we really a constitutional republic? I remember reading about how the original framers feared democracy as much as dictatorship. The despotism of the masses? This problem would be amplified by modern communications.
Yes, I see your point, but there is a slight (almost insignificant, really) difference. I see no Chinese or Israeli troops parked outside my door, slaughtering my friends and family by the thousands, and attempting to impose their way of life upon me.

I essentially agree with the rest of your post.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #60 of 107 (permalink) Old 03-13-2005, 07:04 PM
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RE: Do you want the USA to police the world?

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shrimpton - 3/10/2005 3:12 AM

For the moment - yes, and thank God your Government maintains the balls to assert values common to most western thinking, especially in the face of the renaissance of stone age tribalism. Until the mullahs preach hell's damnation for suicide bombers, a pill cures homosexuality, and Mercedes makes decent cars again, the world needs the protection of a strong nation that is prepared to fight for at least one of these ideals.
I was in Japan and Taiwan last year and lot of people just came up to me and thanked me for what America is doing in Iraq. I felt like a celebrity. I even meet a couple from Austral that was grateful for what America was doing in the Middle East.

However when I was in France, it was a mix reaction.

I just do not feel that America should be the one spending the most money to help the world. We should let the world police themselves and make better use of the money that we spend to help the world, because we sure are not appreciated in Europe.

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