Our Government: Reserved for Judeo-Christian believers, all others need not apply - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-02-2005, 12:25 PM
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hmmmm..I sense a disturbance in the force.......

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post #12 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-02-2005, 12:47 PM
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RE: Our Government: Reserved for Judeo-Christian believers, all others need not apply

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55Gullwing - 3/2/2005 12:23 PM


OK, well even if I was to go along with that what percentage of people do you think use/reach "The upper part of mental life of which the person is aware" ?
Uhhhhhhh -- all who aren't severely handicapped or comatose -- is this really that hard for you?

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #13 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-02-2005, 01:04 PM
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RE: Our Government: Reserved for Judeo-Christian believers, all others need not apply

Ah ha ha... I would say 'empathy' before I would say 'consciousness', because you can feel empathy for creatures who you can argue under some definitions are not 'conscious', including examples like the severely handicapped. Not that consciousness is in my opinion an invalid answer, not at all.

It's a traaaap!

Personally, I don't see how morality taught only by means of stick and carrot (behave and you go to heaven; counter the will of God and you go to hell) must necessarily be superior to or more stable than one arrived at through logic or some life philosophy.

Does a religious person who loses faith for some reason immediately lose all grasp on morality?
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post #14 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-02-2005, 01:15 PM
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RE: Our Government: Reserved for Judeo-Christian believers, all others need not apply

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55Gullwing - 3/2/2005 6:24 PM

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jjl - 3/2/2005 8:39 AM
Why do Christians think that they invented morality?
so what is your "morality" based on?
A balance between my pleasure and your pain.

How about yours?
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post #15 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-02-2005, 01:31 PM
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RE: Our Government: Reserved for Judeo-Christian believers, all others need not apply

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webwench - 3/2/2005 1:04 PM

Ah ha ha... I would say 'empathy' before I would say 'consciousness', because you can feel empathy for creatures who you can argue under some definitions are not 'conscious', including examples like the severely handicapped. Not that consciousness is in my opinion an invalid answer, not at all.

It's a traaaap!

Personally, I don't see how morality taught only by means of stick and carrot (behave and you go to heaven; counter the will of God and you go to hell) must necessarily be superior to or more stable than one arrived at through logic or some life philosophy.

Does a religious person who loses faith for some reason immediately lose all grasp on morality?
No argument here -- consciousness (awareness) leads to empathy. A little life experience is all that's required to discern "good" from "bad" (I like this/I don't like this). This is the consciousness part. The empathy part comes into play once you infuse that sense into your dealings with others. You can see it in action along with resulting "morality" by going to a local dog park. Most healthy, relatively normal dogs treat each other in a prescribed fashion which clearly denotes respect -- morality in its most basic and important form.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #16 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-02-2005, 01:33 PM
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RE: Our Government: Reserved for Judeo-Christian believers, all others need not apply

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webwench - 3/2/2005 1:04 PM

Personally, I don't see how morality taught only by means of stick and carrot (behave and you go to heaven; counter the will of God and you go to hell) must necessarily be superior to or more stable than one arrived at through logic or some life philosophy.
Morality and faith are distinct concepts. Western religion stresses faith, often at the expense of morality.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #17 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-02-2005, 01:43 PM
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RE: Our Government: Reserved for Judeo-Christian believers, all others need not apply

jjl - I base my morality on the word of my God and creator.

webwench - A loss of faith doesn't necessarily cause a loss of morality, but they do usually go hand in hand. Also, do you really believe that there are no consequences for a life lived with "sin" or a "lack or morality" (however you choose to define those words)?

GermanStar - So if the majority of people have this "Consciousness" then why are there so many obviously terrible/imoral people? If they have it, they aren't using it.

Chuck V - So, Jedi's created all that is in the universe?


Are all of you going to tell me that you believe that your existance is an act of random chance/evolution???

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post #18 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-02-2005, 01:57 PM
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RE: Our Government: Reserved for Judeo-Christian believers, all others need not apply

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55Gullwing - 3/2/2005 3:43 PM

webwench - A loss of faith doesn't necessarily cause a loss of morality, but they do usually go hand in hand. Also, do you really believe that there are no consequences for a life lived with "sin" or a "lack or morality" (however you choose to define those words)?
Did I imply that I believed that an immoral life has no adverse consequences? I certainly did not. The consequences I am aware of that arise from leading an immoral life, however, are worldly.

I would like to see some sort of evidence to back up the statement 'A loss of faith doesn't necessarily cause a loss of morality, but they do usually go hand in hand.' It does not fit the people I know who have lost religious faith for one reason or another.

As an aside, you are as unlikely to talk one of us nonbelievers into joining in your faith, as I am of convincing you there is no God. The best thing for us to do in my opinion is to accept that we are operating from different belief systems, and judge eachother on actions rather than the motivations we assume to be driving the actions.
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post #19 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-02-2005, 01:57 PM
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RE: Our Government: Reserved for Judeo-Christian believers, all others need not apply

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55Gullwing - 3/2/2005 1:43 PM

Are all of you going to tell me that you believe that your existance is an act of random chance/evolution???
No, we were created by a jealous, invisible, prejudiced Judeo god who advocates infanticide and genocide. I can tell by the barcode on the back of my neck. If you're looking for morality, you may want to look elsewhere...

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #20 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-02-2005, 02:04 PM
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RE: Our Government: Reserved for Judeo-Christian believers, all others need not apply

[:D] you guys are funny......

OK, I am not here to convert any of you, you can and i am sure will do as you please until the day you die. I just felt it necessay to interject into you onside thread, and will contine to pop up when I see something that so moves me in here... I thibnk you shouyld have the freedom to believe as you choose, but so should I! If a parent wants to have their kids bring there Bible to there public school they should not be stoped, and If a preacher wants to tell the people in their church why they think they should vote for one candidate or another they should be allowed to wihout fear of loosing tax exempt status.

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