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post #31 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-03-2005, 09:14 PM
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RE: we can kill up to our 18 b-day

Quote:
GermanStar - 3/3/2005 10:48 PM

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Brian Carlton - 3/3/2005 8:38 PM

I can envision a survivor gaining some measure of closure if the transgressor is executed. It may allow the survivor to move forward with emotional healing. Now, this may be accomplished without the death penalty, but, it is possible that it would be more difficult for some people.

I don't wish to defend this position, since I am not in it, and therefore shouldn't judge it. I just wish to point out that it exists.
Emotional healing comes from forgiveness. How do you forgive a dead man?

Violence begets violence. What good can come from the violence of a state-sponsored execution? In a strange way, it condones the act it attempts to deter.
Emotional healing comes from forgiveness for some people. I don't think you can make this a generalization. Personally, I believe that some people will gain closure from a dead man and then proceed to begin healing, something that they might not otherwise be able to do (especially for men) if the killer remains alive.

I agree.

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post #32 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-04-2005, 02:16 PM
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RE: we can kill up to our 18 b-day

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GermanStar - 3/3/2005 10:17 PM

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S-KLASSE8 - 3/3/2005 7:11 PM

Easy to be generous, giving "life" to murderers that happen to be older teens, but I wonder how you would feel if one of these people killed someone close to you. How about multiple murders? (Columbine or Malvo case?) Might be different...
Emotional healing does not come from revenge or even justice. Do you believe that you benefit from the execution of an individual who has taken the life of one close to you? If you do, in what manner?
Yes! I definitely think that a very painful and long death of a person that killed someone close to me, would make me feel a little better. It would just piss me off to learn that I paid for their room and board, with my taxes, and to learn that they got a degree at my expense. You reap what you sew. Who says that justice is unfair, or unwarranted? What is the price to be paid for TAKING an INNOCENT persons life? For the killer to give up his. [xx(] Fair is fair.

"I have spent MOST of the money I have made in my life on expensive women, expensive cars, and expensive drugs. The rest I just wasted." S-KLASSE8, "Belief in the supernatural, reflects a failure in the imagination." - Edward Abbey "Give me a firm place to stand, and I will move the Earth." - Archimedes - 1979 (fully restored) 450SLC - 1989 (fully restored)420SEL - "S CLASS STYLE - S CLASS ATTITUDE"
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post #33 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-04-2005, 03:04 PM
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RE: we can kill up to our 18 b-day

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S-KLASSE8 - 3/4/2005 2:16 PM

Yes! I definitely think that a very painful and long death of a person that killed someone close to me, would make me feel a little better. It would just piss me off to learn that I paid for their room and board, with my taxes, and to learn that they got a degree at my expense. You reap what you sew. Who says that justice is unfair, or unwarranted? What is the price to be paid for TAKING an INNOCENT persons life? For the killer to give up his. [xx(] Fair is fair.
You have much work before you, grasshopper. You would be well advised to proceed to the shaolin temple with great haste.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #34 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-04-2005, 03:25 PM
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RE: we can kill up to our 18 b-day

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GermanStar - 3/4/2005 5:04 PM

Quote:
S-KLASSE8 - 3/4/2005 2:16 PM

Yes! I definitely think that a very painful and long death of a person that killed someone close to me, would make me feel a little better. It would just piss me off to learn that I paid for their room and board, with my taxes, and to learn that they got a degree at my expense. You reap what you sew. Who says that justice is unfair, or unwarranted? What is the price to be paid for TAKING an INNOCENT persons life? For the killer to give up his. [xx(] Fair is fair.
You have much work before you, grasshopper. You would be well advised to proceed to the shaolin temple with great haste.
I'm not the stoned pacifist, liberal, let's forgive anyone for anything, I won't take a stand on anything, nothing is black or white, everything is grey, there is no right or wrong, there are only different opinions, kind of person, that you are dude(?). You obviously are very in-touch with your feminine side. Grass smoker, I mean, Grass hopper. You are entilted to your opinion, I guess...

"I have spent MOST of the money I have made in my life on expensive women, expensive cars, and expensive drugs. The rest I just wasted." S-KLASSE8, "Belief in the supernatural, reflects a failure in the imagination." - Edward Abbey "Give me a firm place to stand, and I will move the Earth." - Archimedes - 1979 (fully restored) 450SLC - 1989 (fully restored)420SEL - "S CLASS STYLE - S CLASS ATTITUDE"
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post #35 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-04-2005, 03:37 PM
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RE: we can kill up to our 18 b-day

Where would Christianity be without capital punishment?
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post #36 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-04-2005, 03:43 PM
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RE: we can kill up to our 18 b-day

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Zeitgeist - 3/3/2005 10:39 PM

I'd sure as hell be far more traumatized if the perp were to be murdered by the State for killing a loved one. Murder is wrong--two wrongs don't make it right.
Like I say, I have mixed feelings on this. The hot-button case in Texas involves two teen age girls who went for a midnight walk on the Galveston Beach, much of which on the west end of the island is not patrolled and is as remote as some forests, and accidently happened upon a gang initiation in progress - one of the Hispanic gangs in Houston apparently needed a nice private place to beat the shit out of new recruits - and the gang spent the rest of the evening raping, torturing and beating the two girls to death. The father of one of the girls became a state celebrity of sorts as a rightously indignant champion of the DP, a regular fixture on the TV, a man shattered by the loss of the only child he had. Three of them, all juveniles, went to Death Row. What do you say to a situation like that? Doesn't this man have a right to his revenge?


Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

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post #37 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-04-2005, 03:54 PM
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RE: we can kill up to our 18 b-day

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A264172 - 3/4/2005 5:37 PM

Where would Christianity be without capital punishment?
Didn't the bible say "an eye for an eye?" Christians have always been very bloodthirsty![8)]

"I have spent MOST of the money I have made in my life on expensive women, expensive cars, and expensive drugs. The rest I just wasted." S-KLASSE8, "Belief in the supernatural, reflects a failure in the imagination." - Edward Abbey "Give me a firm place to stand, and I will move the Earth." - Archimedes - 1979 (fully restored) 450SLC - 1989 (fully restored)420SEL - "S CLASS STYLE - S CLASS ATTITUDE"
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post #38 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-04-2005, 04:04 PM
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RE: we can kill up to our 18 b-day

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S-KLASSE8 - 3/4/2005 3:25 PM

I'm not the stoned pacifist, liberal, let's forgive anyone for anything, I won't take a stand on anything, nothing is black or white, everything is grey, there is no right or wrong, there are only different opinions, kind of person, that you are dude(?). You obviously are very in-touch with your feminine side. Grass smoker, I mean, Grass hopper. You are entilted to your opinion, I guess...
I know -- Ghandi, Buddha, and Jesus were dope-smoking assholes. I need to focus more on Machiavelli and Hitler. Perhaps I'll just settle for Sun Tzu.

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post #39 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-04-2005, 04:06 PM
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RE: we can kill up to our 18 b-day

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S-KLASSE8 - 3/4/2005 5:54 PM

Quote:
A264172 - 3/4/2005 5:37 PM

Where would Christianity be without capital punishment?
Didn't the bible say "an eye for an eye?" Christians have always been very bloodthirsty![8)]
If Catholics had to accept the Geritol of Christ who wore Depends for our sins we might all be a little more tolerant here in the western world at least.
I think the eye for an eye guys are the greater Judeo Christian community... But a chalace full every sunday with some kick can do funny things to a flock.
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post #40 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-04-2005, 04:07 PM
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RE: we can kill up to our 18 b-day

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kvining - 3/4/2005 5:43 PM



Like I say, I have mixed feelings on this............

Doesn't this man have a right to his revenge?
You left yourself wide open on this one.[:D]

The man has no rights of revenge unless the government sees fit to it to grant those rights. Even so, the man has no rights personally. The best he could hope for is to witness the government killing the bastards.

My statement above is that the survivors may gain some closure and be able to move on with their lives, if we kill the perpetrator(s) of such a crime.
Then again, they may not. It all depends on the individual.

Personally, I would get some satisfaction to see these individuals get the needle. I cannot precisely tell you why. I certainly don't think it's going to deter any such behavior in the future.

The problem with killing them, in general, is not with the case as you described. The issue is with cases with far less evidence. There should be a separate requirement for killing a convicted person. The evidence must be available that the person committed this crime, "beyond a shadow of a doubt." It needs to be a bit stronger than "beyond a reasonable doubt". If you cannot get to this level of conviction for a murderer, then, he should go to jail for life.

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