Stop Beating around the Bush... - Page 5 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #41 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-07-2005, 08:20 AM
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RE: Stop Beating around the Bush...

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kvining - 3/7/2005 10:01 AM

My point is really rather simple. The idea that people on welfare are able-bodied loafers is a myth. The reforms of the 90s pretty much put an end to the abuses of the welfare system. Those who are on it generally need to be on it. Most of the bashing of the current welfare system has a subtle racist component to it, and it seems to come mostly from Southerners who equate the word "welfare" with the words "black people". They need to get over their stereotype, and the quickest way I know how to do that is to do some volunteer work with the organizations who work with these people. Instead of some "welfare queen driving a Cadillac" they will find human misery on a scale they are unable to imagine from the perspective of their cushy jobs and comfortable homes. Welfare, now at bare subsistence levels, still pisses these selfish "conservatives" off, and they won't be happy until they are all forced into the streets to beg for their living.
I'm conservative by nature, but, not in the way most of these so called "conservatives" behave. I don't think they can even define the word "conservative".

I'm in complete agreement with the above post. The "welfare queen driving a Cadillac" is definitely a myth. I have many tenants that just get by on Social Services assistance. None of them ever had a vehicle. They must get around by help from friends and by bus. It's a tough existence.

I will tell you, however, that it takes a person with strong liberal beliefs to watch, and support, a 21 year old woman on welfare move into an apartment with one child and then, before you know it, another child appears, as if by magic, and, the amount of money provided by the social service program goes up accordingly.

These programs allow these people to barely subsist and they are ruthless with the paperwork and documentation requirements. I wouldn't want to see any further cuts in this area.

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post #42 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-07-2005, 11:02 PM
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RE: Stop Beating around the Bush...

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Botnst - 3/2/2005 8:44 PM

If it appears that I am baiting you, don't take that which you perceive as bait. Let it pass.

As I understand what you said, you think that the majority of people are not smart enough to run their lives effectively. That being the case, then compassionate, intelligent people must care for those people who cannot care for themselves. Is that a fair characterization?

My response is that I assume that all men are created equal. I make no exception. Even a brainless microcephalic is still a human and deserving of human consideration. No more, no less. I do not believe in protected classes. I think that is exactly anathema to my first sentence. When we make politics out of exceptionalism, we create a society in which all people are equal but some are more equal than others. That is the first step to enslavement, whether from the right or left, I don't give a damn.
Hey Bot, I actually agree with most of your last paragraph. However, for some reason you are tracking off the original point of the discussion, which was the purpose of the President's support for privatization of some portion of Social Security.

With regard to that point, it seems the only ones to be making out on a sure bet here is the money industry, the stock brokers and the like. Which, when you cut out all the red herring bullshit about welfare, class structure and racism, you find our born again President supporting a concept that sounds like "God helps those who help themselves" again. Here he is, helping himself and his cohorts to your premiums on your insurance policy, in the name of "teaching you to help yourself" so God can shine his grace on you too.

The intelligence of the average American has nothing to do with his qualifications to be his own investment guru. Sounds great, let everyone have their own private accounts and be responsible for their accumulating wealth, but it is just more red meat for the frenzied carnivorous crowd of selfish, shortsighted, Libertarian veneered, and other Republicans that is used to get them to involuntarily back such obviously selfish and greedy initiatives. Like dangling a string in front of a cat to get him to paw at it. Works every time.

And when the stock market crashes or thousands of Joe Average Americans just make poor choices because they were bombarded by charlatans providing advice they were not trained to properly evaluate, and they end up destitute in old age and unable to work, you can all feel justified letting them die on the sidewalks of starvation and disease because you gave them the choice to be wealthy or poor and they chose poor. So fuck 'em, they got what they wanted, and why is it of anyone else's concern, and especially why is it of the government's concern?

By the way, would 100% tax on inheritance prevent the problem of successful, wealthy parents enslaving their kids by leaving all that money to them and preventing them from experiencing first hand the wonder of self realization? Jim
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post #43 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-08-2005, 08:17 AM
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RE: Stop Beating around the Bush...

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JimSmith - 3/7/2005 10:02 PM
By the way, would 100% tax on inheritance prevent the problem of successful, wealthy parents enslaving their kids by leaving all that money to them and preventing them from experiencing first hand the wonder of self realization?
Dayamn buddy, that's a fine idea! We could call that the Hilton Tax.
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post #44 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-08-2005, 08:47 PM
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RE: Stop Beating around the Bush...

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Zeitgeist - 3/8/2005 10:17 AM

Quote:
JimSmith - 3/7/2005 10:02 PM
By the way, would 100% tax on inheritance prevent the problem of successful, wealthy parents enslaving their kids by leaving all that money to them and preventing them from experiencing first hand the wonder of self realization?
Dayamn buddy, that's a fine idea! We could call that the Hilton Tax.
In heritence of great wealth is a bad thing. I agree with Adam Smith on that. But I sure as heck don't like the idea of teh gov confiscating the wealth of dead people, either. There's just a bit too much incentive to hurry things along. Nor do I like perpetual nonprofit trusts. I wish that rich folks would just give it all away after their death. OTOH, give the Hilton sisters a billion bucks and I'll bet they piss a lot of it away by the time they're 50. It is more than likely that any offspring they bear will be even more unbearable than they are and will help piss away whatever they don't squander.

I don't see a good solution.
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post #45 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-08-2005, 09:17 PM
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RE: Stop Beating around the Bush...

My FIL worked his way up from the coal mines of Pennsylvania to become a flight surgeon for FAA. Now retired and getting on in age, he's opted to gradually pay out his offspring's inheritance while he's still alive. That works quite well for Lady Z and me.
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post #46 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-09-2005, 05:53 AM
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RE: Stop Beating around the Bush...

I'm still wondering why all these "Christians" who claim to be superior to the rest of us haven't given all their money to the poor. They should all be wearing sack clothes and dragging heavy wooden crosses thru the streets. Perhaps we can help them along by letting the government do it. I'm sure they will see the holiness of it all.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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