The US is not a Christian Nation. - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 03:02 PM Thread Starter
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The US is not a Christian Nation.

A good essay:

http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20050221&s=allen

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post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 03:43 PM
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RE: The US is not a Christian Nation.

Outstanding.

'A man compounded of law and gospel is able to cheat a whole country with his religion and then destroy them under color of law'

cf GeeDubya, Tory Blair.

Do you know of any similar material on why scientific rationalism continues its decline in the US? This isn't the case in Europe, as you know.
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post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 03:55 PM
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RE: The US is not a Christian Nation.

Countdown to argument about the Treaty of Tripoli...
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post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 04:37 PM
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RE: The US is not a Christian Nation.

Quote:
kerry edwards - 2/26/2005 5:02 PM

A good essay:

http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20050221&s=allen
That essay, was not based on fact at all. While the Constitution and the founding of the original thirteen colonies was based on religious freedom, the founders were Christians (75% to 80% Library of Congress). http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/ http://www.religiousfreedom.com/wrpt/USrpt.htm

"I have spent MOST of the money I have made in my life on expensive women, expensive cars, and expensive drugs. The rest I just wasted." S-KLASSE8, "Belief in the supernatural, reflects a failure in the imagination." - Edward Abbey "Give me a firm place to stand, and I will move the Earth." - Archimedes - 1979 (fully restored) 450SLC - 1989 (fully restored)420SEL - "S CLASS STYLE - S CLASS ATTITUDE"
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post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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RE: The US is not a Christian Nation.

Quote:
S-KLASSE8 - 2/26/2005 6:37 PM

Quote:
kerry edwards - 2/26/2005 5:02 PM

A good essay:

http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20050221&s=allen
That essay, was not based on fact at all. While the Constitution and the founding of the original thirteen colonies was based on religious freedom, the founders were Christians (75% to 80% Library of Congress). http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/ http://www.religiousfreedom.com/wrpt/USrpt.htm
Of course, it all turns on the definition of 'Christian'. As the article points out, Jefferson endorsed Christianity by attending Church, but was in fact an Enlightenment Deist.
As one of the links states, "This lack of objection suggests that both the legislators and the public considered it appropriate for the national government to promote a nondenominational, nonpolemical Christianity.". This could just as easily be understood as moralistic Deism.

There is absolutely nothing in Christianity which hint that government is justified by the will of the people. This is clearly an Enmightenment development which is deeply at odds with Medieval Christianity's justification of the divine right of kings, or the early Christian anarchism which separated itself from the Roman imperial system.
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post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 05:09 PM
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RE: The US is not a Christian Nation.

The founders who were all sort of Christian or other, intentionally did NOT name this nation as Christian and intentionally held mention of deity to as small an amount as they could, given their time. They did not want to continue the awful sectarian violence that had wracked Europe for 200 years. To bring that stuff into government would have created the rpoblem most of this country wished not to see again.

I think we tend to confuse the worshipful belief in deity with the fact of this nation's obvious relationship from Christian/European belief systems. Europe is much more secular than we are but to say that they are not a direct result of Christian thought, for good and bad, is to defy history. Of course they are, and we are. For 1700 years Christian life and doctrine overwhelmed every thinking moment of most people in Europe. Even people who weren't believers could not then, and cannot now escape the culture and society in which they are born.

Our language and concepts are all infused with symbols and thoughts of religion and we usually don't notice because the symbols are part of who we are. Even if you're an atheist, you use the symbols. Concepts of truth, fact, reason, testimony, etc have been defined for over a thousand years through religious eyes and appeals to deity. It's who we are.
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post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 05:19 PM
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RE: The US is not a Christian Nation.

Your thinking is kind of murky, but, it's obvious that our colonists didn't agree totally with the Church of England (and it's strict compliance), and that is the reason for them including freedom of religion in the Constitution, but all the "splinter" groups that eventually emerged came from, and still were, Christian.

"I have spent MOST of the money I have made in my life on expensive women, expensive cars, and expensive drugs. The rest I just wasted." S-KLASSE8, "Belief in the supernatural, reflects a failure in the imagination." - Edward Abbey "Give me a firm place to stand, and I will move the Earth." - Archimedes - 1979 (fully restored) 450SLC - 1989 (fully restored)420SEL - "S CLASS STYLE - S CLASS ATTITUDE"
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post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 05:24 PM
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RE: The US is not a Christian Nation.

Quote:
S-KLASSE8 - 2/26/2005 7:19 PM

Your thinking is kind of murky, but, it's obvious that our colonists didn't agree totally with the Church of England (and it's strict compliance), and that is the reason for them including freedom of religion in the Constitution, but all the "splinter" groups that eventually emerged came from, and still were, Christian.
I forgot - "In GOD We Trust" (that is the Judeo-Christian GOD of course).[:D]

"I have spent MOST of the money I have made in my life on expensive women, expensive cars, and expensive drugs. The rest I just wasted." S-KLASSE8, "Belief in the supernatural, reflects a failure in the imagination." - Edward Abbey "Give me a firm place to stand, and I will move the Earth." - Archimedes - 1979 (fully restored) 450SLC - 1989 (fully restored)420SEL - "S CLASS STYLE - S CLASS ATTITUDE"
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post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 06:05 PM Thread Starter
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RE: The US is not a Christian Nation.

Quote:
S-KLASSE8 - 2/26/2005 7:24 PM
I forgot - "In GOD We Trust" (that is the Judeo-Christian GOD of course).[:D]
I'm quite curious as to how you are able to distinguish this fact. When someone refers to 'God', how do you know it is not the Muslim God or the Hindu God or even Jim Jones' God?

Do the Gods wear T-shirts with their names on them?

What's the difference between the Deists' God and the Judeo-Christian God?
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post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 07:34 PM
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RE: The US is not a Christian Nation.

Quote:
kerry edwards - 2/26/2005 8:05 PM

Quote:
S-KLASSE8 - 2/26/2005 7:24 PM
I forgot - "In GOD We Trust" (that is the Judeo-Christian GOD of course).[:D]
I'm quite curious as to how you are able to distinguish this fact. When someone refers to 'God', how do you know it is not the Muslim God or the Hindu God or even Jim Jones' God?

Do the Gods wear T-shirts with their names on them?

What's the difference between the Deists' God and the Judeo-Christian God?
Glad you asked that. I am an atheist. That is neither here nor there, but I tell you that so you know where I'm coming from. In my extensive study of religion, I have found over 3,000 different gods. Over four thousand different religions(2000 in India alone). Do you want to be religious? Pick one that appeals to you. Seriously. Most of these religions also think that THEY, are the ONLY right faith too, just as Christianity does. Want to get a different perspective on things? Read - "How We Believe" and "Why People believe Wierd Things" Both by Dr. Michael Shermer (GREAT BOOKS you won't put them down)! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Shermer http://www.2think.org/wpbwt.shtml

"I have spent MOST of the money I have made in my life on expensive women, expensive cars, and expensive drugs. The rest I just wasted." S-KLASSE8, "Belief in the supernatural, reflects a failure in the imagination." - Edward Abbey "Give me a firm place to stand, and I will move the Earth." - Archimedes - 1979 (fully restored) 450SLC - 1989 (fully restored)420SEL - "S CLASS STYLE - S CLASS ATTITUDE"
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