Churchill the first Neo-Con? American imperialists think so... - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-27-2005, 07:57 AM
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RE: Churchill the first Neo-Con? American imperialists think so...

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jjl - 2/27/2005 8:44 AM

*I do not understand this sqeamishness about the use of gas. I am strongly in favour of using poison gas against uncivilised tribes."

Churchill thought that poison gas could be useful in dealing with the Kurds and Iraqis, and other Empire subjects.
Man in his time. If I remember correctly, all the civilized tribes of Europe gassed each other for several years during one of their murderous squabbles.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-27-2005, 08:09 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Churchill the first Neo-Con? American imperialists think so...

...but Mom, all the kids are murdering and raping these days.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-27-2005, 09:32 AM
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RE: Churchill the first Neo-Con? American imperialists think so...

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Zeitgeist - 2/27/2005 10:09 AM

...but Mom, all the kids are murdering and raping these days.
Exactly so, Z. It is unremarkable that most people go along with the majority view, else it wouldn't be a majority. It is usually unremarkable when folks go against the majority because usually they lose and are soon forgotten. What we always find remarkable are the few people who go against the majority and prevail.

And because one may prevail in this or that instance doesn't mean that that individual will prevail in all instances. Nor does going aganist the majority in one instance mean one is doomed to become a perpetual iconoclast. Each person always has a choice. Nader (for example) chooses to be an iconoclast, he could just as easily choose not to be.

So Churchill was on the wrong side of politics and histroy a bunch of time in his career. He played loose with truth when it suited his interest. He was a very typical white person in his time, what we now self-righteously (and accurately IMO) call racist.

What Churchill accomplished was extraordinary, and to most people in his time and ours, allows us to forgive all his other failures. He stood firm against tyranny and held his nation together in defiance during a time when it would have been far easier to accept Hitler's offers of peace and accommodation. He inspired and manipulated (through nationalistic cold calculation and later with Roosevelt's complete confidence) the United States from being ambivalently neutral to being ardent anglophiles and created a relationship between the two countries that persists to this day.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-28-2005, 08:33 AM
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RE: Churchill the first Neo-Con? American imperialists think so...

Churchill was a skilled propagandist. Otherwise, he was just another imperialist racist twit.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-28-2005, 07:08 PM
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RE: Churchill the first Neo-Con? American imperialists think so...

Quote:
kvining - 2/28/2005 10:33 AM

Churchill was a skilled propagandist. Otherwise, he was just another imperialist racist twit.
So what did you think of him, really? Don't hold back.
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