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post #11 of 90 (permalink) Old 02-07-2005, 10:03 PM Thread Starter
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RE: George Bush - The "Propaganda President" ?

....so, you're starting to see a pattern then?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #12 of 90 (permalink) Old 02-07-2005, 10:45 PM
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RE: George Bush - The "Propaganda President" ?

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kvining - 2/8/2005 12:03 AM

....so, you're starting to see a pattern then?
Sup KV, I have no doubt that the govt. is involved with propaganda. Hey, they admittedly paid folks with taxpayer dollars to promote thier agenda. I ask what's new other than the admitting part?

my perspective is that the state of the union address itself is taxpayer funded propaganda. Those bastages have been doing that for many administrations. It's all propaganda really. Depending on one's perspective, one could see these threads as propaganda. By the way, I have grown to enjoy these things. I am a PROPAHOLIC![:0]

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post #13 of 90 (permalink) Old 02-07-2005, 11:02 PM Thread Starter
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RE: George Bush - The "Propaganda President" ?

What exactly is your definition of "propaganda"? Believe it or not, the US Government is prohibited by law in engaging in it. The general defintion of propaganda is information that is a mixture of truth, half truth and out right lies put together in a way that sounds plausibly true. The ethical argument for it is that the "cause" it serves is so great, this behavior is justified. The orginator of that argument is Joesph Goebbels. I think you have the definition of "propaganda" and "slanted" confused. Propaganda as part of daily life is something totally new in this country. The Republicans have set up an enormous propaganda machine that operates as a virtual part of government in this country, and a lot of what makes it run is the propaganda fed into it from people like Mr. Cheney. Read that Fox interview again. Mr. Cheney is not presenting information in a favorable light to his interests - he is engaging in propaganda, by pushing the lie Social Security is going to go broke. Why? Because the truth will never sell the public on what they want to do, just as happened in Iraq and God knows what else - do you think it was any different for Hitler when he talked the Germans into invading Poland? What the hell has happened to us? Clinton, in fact all the presidents before Bush, if caught in a single lie were pilloried by the press unmercifully. Now - the lies are reported without refutation. What the hell happened?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #14 of 90 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 12:31 AM
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RE: George Bush - The "Propaganda President" ?

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kvining - 2/8/2005 1:02 AM

What exactly is your definition of "propaganda"? Believe it or not, the US Government is prohibited by law in engaging in it. The general defintion of propaganda is information that is a mixture of truth, half truth and out right lies put together in a way that sounds plausibly true. The ethical argument for it is that the "cause" it serves is so great, this behavior is justified. The orginator of that argument is Joesph Goebbels. I think you have the definition of "propaganda" and "slanted" confused. Propaganda as part of daily life is something totally new in this country. The Republicans have set up an enormous propaganda machine that operates as a virtual part of government in this country, and a lot of what makes it run is the propaganda fed into it from people like Mr. Cheney. Read that Fox interview again. Mr. Cheney is not presenting information in a favorable light to his interests - he is engaging in propaganda, by pushing the lie Social Security is going to go broke. Why? Because the truth will never sell the public on what they want to do, just as happened in Iraq and God knows what else - do you think it was any different for Hitler when he talked the Germans into invading Poland? What the hell has happened to us? Clinton, in fact all the presidents before Bush, if caught in a single lie were pilloried by the press unmercifully. Now - the lies are reported without refutation. What the hell happened?
Well KV, you are convincing. I was following the merriam-webster dictionary version of "propaganda"

Propaganda: the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person

Propaganda: ideas facts or allegations spread deliberatley to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; also: a public action having such affect.

I still enjoy your brand. It's like watching a train wreck. I know I'll be traumatized, but I can't help myself![:)]

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post #15 of 90 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 07:26 AM Thread Starter
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RE: George Bush - The "Propaganda President" ?

It is a hard to define word. Here's a good article:

http://www.historians.org/Projects/GIRoundtable/Propaganda/Propaganda8.htm

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #16 of 90 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 09:02 AM
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RE: George Bush - The "Propaganda President" ?

Quote:
azimuth - 2/7/2005 12:31 AM

Well KV, you are convincing. I was following the merriam-webster dictionary version of "propaganda"

Propaganda: the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person

Propaganda: ideas facts or allegations spread deliberatley to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; also: a public action having such affect.

I still enjoy your brand. It's like watching a train wreck. I know I'll be traumatized, but I can't help myself![:)]
If you don't want to call it propaganda, what is the mechanism that's been so frighteningly effective? Why is that so many Americans are out of touch with reality in regard to the actions of this administration, particularly in regard to Iraq? Ask your friends, family members and co-workers why we're in Iraq, and you'll get answers from seemingly intelligent people that GW himself would have to admit are untrue. At least that's been my experience. Why do so many people believe that Iraq was an active player in regard to the 9/11 attack? Why do so many people believe that Iraq played an active role in terrorism against the West prior to our invasion? Why do so many people believe Saddam was actively pursuing WMD arsenals immediately before our invasion? Why are so many people certain that we're right and justified in our actions, and that 95% of the rest of the world just doesn't have a clue? Since this isn't the result of propaganda, what is the source?

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post #17 of 90 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 11:28 AM Thread Starter
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RE: George Bush - The "Propaganda President" ?

One need only look at Nazi Germany for the answer. The average German believed Jews ran the US and the USSR, that Roosevelt himself was Jewish, and that Poland had attacked Germany. The reason? Propaganda eminating from the government.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #18 of 90 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 12:20 PM
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RE: George Bush - The "Propaganda President" ?

The only Propaganda president we have had was Bill Clinton.........the master of talking out of both sides of his mouth at once...the man who EARNED the knickname rightfully.........Slick Willie.

Bush is right, adn always has been and that mear fact just eats away at the liberals.

Liberals talk and talk about all the wrong things....Bush acts.....in all the right ways.

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post #19 of 90 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 01:53 PM
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RE: George Bush - The "Propaganda President" ?

It's small consolation, but New Labour leaned the propaganda lesson many years ago. UK has gone the same way. Every press release is 'spun'. Do you remember the nice Blairite who on 9/11 thought that 'it was a good day to bury bad news' i.e. sneak out embarrassing government results under cover of the wtc attack? Typical.
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post #20 of 90 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 02:51 PM Thread Starter
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RE: George Bush - The "Propaganda President" ?

Quote:
79-300SD - 2/8/2005 2:20 PM

The only Propaganda president we have had was Bill Clinton.........the master of talking out of both sides of his mouth at once...the man who EARNED the knickname rightfully.........Slick Willie.

Bush is right, adn always has been and that mear fact just eats away at the liberals.

Liberals talk and talk about all the wrong things....Bush acts.....in all the right ways.
And, as one can see, propaganda WORKS.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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