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post #61 of 166 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 12:25 PM
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RE: Why all the lying about Social Security?

The only lying is coming from the left........they WANT SSI to fail.....we have known for at least a 15 years it was in trouble..........what did Clinton do about it......NOTHING..........what alternatives have the liberals offered.............NOTHING.........and yet they complain about the onl attempt to Fix SSI that has been presented in recent years.

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post #62 of 166 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 12:48 PM
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RE: Why all the lying about Social Security?

Quote:
blackmercedes - 2/7/2005 11:05 PM

Quote:
Botnst - 2/7/2005 8:54 PM

Over time, the infrastructure got built. Where did the money come from? Taxes? Who paid the taxes, welfare recipients?

B
Nowhere did I say that we should lose capitalism. It's great. But, your point was that taxation was "robbery" that was counterproductive to the advacement of capitalism, the only true saviour of society. Your latest point is a reiteration of mine. We used both capitalism and "socialist" policies like taxation together. We created the economic base through capitalism and then used the economic prosperity to fund socialist policy to create economic stability, allowing capitalism to work even better.

Why do the neo-cons assume that 90% of the population is on welfare? Is it? With 5% unemployment, I don't see how. Isn't the assumption that if you offer it, everyone willquit their jobs on go on it? Funny they haven't. Odd that people would rather work, even many for minimum wage at Wal-Mart. The vast majority view welfare and other social programs as nothing more that a safety net.
I don't know what a neocon is, so I'll let you speak for them.

I never used any proportionality in any claim I made concerning wealth creation and taxation. If you want to claim some proportion, that's fine with me.

Did I say taxation was robbery? I don't think so.

Look, I think Canada is a wonderful place and I encourage Canadian citizens to choose whatever form of government and services they want. It is absolutely none of my business to opine on a country with obviously strong commitment to democratic self-government. You choose your form and your destiny and I'm more than proud of you for doing so.

Whenever government does anything, good or bad, it costs the taxpayer. Government does not creat wealth, government consumes wealth.

B
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post #63 of 166 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 01:13 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Why all the lying about Social Security?

That's all real nice. Now, why are the Republicans lying about the state of Social Security?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #64 of 166 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 01:15 PM
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RE: Why all the lying about Social Security?

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kvining - 2/8/2005 3:13 PM

That's all real nice. Now, why are the Republicans lying about the state of Social Security?
I don't know. Ask one. Ask yourself.

My position is pretty clear, f**k a buncha Demopublicans. I want the damned thing killed.
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post #65 of 166 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 01:19 PM
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RE: Why all the lying about Social Security?

If you scrap SS, what are your predictions of the consequences? I'm genuinely interested.
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post #66 of 166 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 06:18 PM
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RE: Why all the lying about Social Security?

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jjl - 2/8/2005 3:19 PM

If you scrap SS, what are your predictions of the consequences? I'm genuinely interested.
Suddenly millions of people whould have to learn to take care of themselves. The government could no longer lie about where the money goes that they wrest from my unwilling hands.

I suspect something analogous to what happened when the Bell Tel system was broken-up. Suddenly there were a tremendous number of choices that people had to figure-out. Technological innovation and competition resulted in huge price drops. New companies with new ideas emerged. People got rich. Companies folded and peopel were thrown out of work. Cell phones appeared and now compete directly with land services. Cable companies compete with phone companies. Everybody fights for every dime of consumer money offering more and more goods and services. It is chaos! Cry Havoc!

Perhaps we could use Chile as a model. Look it up.
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post #67 of 166 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 07:36 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Why all the lying about Social Security?

And we will all be drinking that free bubble up, and eating that rainbow stew. SSI is insurance against the uncertainties of life. Things will simply go back to the 1920s and 30s, where grandma died in the street after spending her golden years eating dogfood. Tell me, how much do you think a person making minimum wage their whole lives will be able to save for retirement? How about the family that has its back against the wall? How about the family whose health insurance has run out and needs every dime it can get to keep a loved one alive? You simply confirm my deepest suspicion - that conservatives are heartless bastards who have no compassion for those less fortunate then their greedy friggin selves.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #68 of 166 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 07:44 PM
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RE: Why all the lying about Social Security?

Quote:
kvining - 2/8/2005 9:36 PM

And we will all be drinking that free bubble up, and eating that rainbow stew. SSI is insurance against the uncertainties of life. Things will simply go back to the 1920s and 30s, where grandma died in the street after spending her golden years eating dogfood. Tell me, how much do you think a person making minimum wage their whole lives will be able to save for retirement? How about the family that has its back against the wall? How about the family whose health insurance has run out and needs every dime it can get to keep a loved one alive? You simply confirm my deepest suspicion - that conservatives are heartless bastards who have no compassion for those less fortunate then their greedy friggin selves.
I think that the answer to your questions here, Kirk, is that he, and others of his ilk, simply do not care.

Joe B.
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post #69 of 166 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 08:00 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Why all the lying about Social Security?

Pure capitalism and is as much a utopian ideology as communism is. The proponents of both are as blind to to the suffering they cause. It is no accident that the US is moving backwards in every social category - infant mortality is up, Phd's are down, and jobs pay less. Who is benefiting? The rich. Ultimately this leads to unstable, two class societies. We are rapidly heading there.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #70 of 166 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 05:13 AM
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RE: Why all the lying about Social Security?

As a young person I looked up to the US,we all saw on television the lovely home that Fred Mcmurray and his sons lived in,the nice big cars the brady's drove around in and so on.
We never heard of or saw the the blacks and latinos exsisting in crumbling blocks of buildings,living a subsistance life or of the poor whites in rural america selling their daughters into prostitution to ensure there was food to eat,or of young girls working as prostitutes to pay their colledge fees..Or of welfare food stamps or soup kitchens or the salvation army helping children who had been abandoned by their single mothers..
we never had such things in our society,because we had a Social Conscience and forefathers insisted that as a society we must all contribute to the maintenance of that Social Conscience.
Your bushites and our shameful howards are trying to convince everyone that to have a social conscience is to be a socialist.In order to force you pay into self funding pention schemes your bushite leadership is attempting to steal your money from you to lessen the effect of his war budget.
I see today that he is already attacking the farmers by removing all subsidys,whats next,your already meager health and welfare schemes?
In order for a just society to florish you must be willing to ensure that those who unable or even unwilling to contribute are at least given the chance of a meaning ful life.
By denying that you have a resposibilty ,you are no better than those bushites who intend to take it from those least able to lose.
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