Will Rummy have a rendezvous with justice? - Page 5 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #41 of 78 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 10:48 PM
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RE: Will Rummy have a rendezvous with justice?

What makes that a justification for killing innocent people?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #42 of 78 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 10:51 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Will Rummy have a rendezvous with justice?

When's the last time we voted with a foreign occupying army patrolling the streets, bombing civilians and determining who can and cannot appear on a ballot?
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post #43 of 78 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 10:51 PM
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RE: Will Rummy have a rendezvous with justice?

The whole "democracy" argument has this huge hole in it - this country was not a threat to us. You are essentially endorsing this policy: we have a right to go into a country, murder women and children by the thousands, and then give them a democracy and its all ok. It is the biggest pile of immoral bullshit ever handed to the increasingly chump-ass American people. You are saying we have the right to be judge, jury and executioner for the rest of the planet based upon the Republican Party's judgement of whether they have a government that the Repugs approve of. Incredible.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #44 of 78 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 11:09 PM
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RE: Will Rummy have a rendezvous with justice?

Quote:
kvining - 2/5/2005 12:40 AM

Quote:
azimuth - 2/5/2005 12:08 AM

Back to the original Q... I really find it hard to believe that the US would allow the international prosecution of Sec. Rumsfeld. Which nation of the world could be successful at prosecution let alone fulfillment of sentence in this case?

I'm not surprised to see action being brought, especially any action which originates in the US itself where the political gain is to be had. I believe this action is more about that than any justice for crimes against humanity.

I believe the prosecution would have to prove intent to target and kill innocent civilians with prejudice. I don't see where that can be done. Sure the case for that can be argued. I simply don't see it as being successful.
Why should we expect different treatment than say Serbia? What is to stop the rest of the world from imposing an economic embargo on us if we refuse to hand Rumsfeld over to the International Court of Justice? I think that we are heading for that situation - we think we are invincible, yet we have an economy walking a tightrope. An embargo of oil and strategic metals will bring us and our little fascist war machine to a halt.
Interesting point KV. There is nothing to stop the rest of the world from imposing embargos(sp) or even all out sanctions on us. I think it would suck for us and for the rest of the world. Without our incessant spending on chinese goods, what would happen to thier economy? How about Japan? Germany? We buy a crap load (crap load...my literary genius astounds even me, sometimes) of oil every year. While i'm cerain China would gladly eat up our portion, why would they if there is not the same economyas before?

Sure this is an exercise in the subjuctive tense. It is not concrete, I understand. I still believe that as much of a whore as the consumer body of the US is for foreign products, our "pushers" are equally as undisciplined.

Could a universal foreign embargo/sanction endure? Moreover, how would we be affected?

ps hey KV, how did you get back on the shop forum with your former persona? or was the post I read from you old?

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post #45 of 78 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 11:24 PM
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RE: Will Rummy have a rendezvous with justice?

Quote:
kvining - 2/5/2005 12:48 AM

What makes that a justification for killing innocent people?
Innocent. How was that determined and enumerated?
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post #46 of 78 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 11:25 PM
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RE: Will Rummy have a rendezvous with justice?

Quote:
Zeitgeist - 2/5/2005 12:51 AM

When's the last time we voted with a foreign occupying army patrolling the streets, bombing civilians and determining who can and cannot appear on a ballot?
Fair question.

Can you point to any indication that the USA influenced the balloting?
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post #47 of 78 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 11:27 PM
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RE: Will Rummy have a rendezvous with justice?

Quote:
kvining - 2/5/2005 12:51 AM

The whole "democracy" argument has this huge hole in it - this country was not a threat to us.....
Yes it was a direct, clear and present danger.

"Cartago delenda est."
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post #48 of 78 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 11:28 PM
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RE: Will Rummy have a rendezvous with justice?

Quote:
Zeitgeist - 2/5/2005 12:51 AM

When's the last time we voted with a foreign occupying army patrolling the streets, bombing civilians and determining who can and cannot appear on a ballot?
Assuming there was specific targeting of civilians by our military ever, was the army bombing civilians during the election?

Did the army determine who could appear on the ballot?

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post #49 of 78 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 11:46 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Will Rummy have a rendezvous with justice?

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azimuth - 2/4/2005 10:28 PM
Assuming there was specific targeting of civilians by our military ever, was the army bombing civilians during the election?

Did the army determine who could appear on the ballot?
Ok, we played soccer on Flanders Field during the election...does this diminish the fact that we still militarily controlled their country during this "election"? Does it matter whether the US Army, the US State Dept. or the Iraqi puppet regime determined ballot access rules?
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post #50 of 78 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 11:55 PM
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RE: Will Rummy have a rendezvous with justice?

Quote:
Zeitgeist - 2/5/2005 1:46 AM

Quote:
azimuth - 2/4/2005 10:28 PM
Assuming there was specific targeting of civilians by our military ever, was the army bombing civilians during the election?

Did the army determine who could appear on the ballot?
Ok, we played soccer on Flanders Field during the election...does this diminish the fact that we still militarily controlled their country during this "election"? Does it matter whether the US Army, the US State Dept. or the Iraqi puppet regime determined ballot access rules?
Yes.
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