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post #31 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 09:29 AM
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RE: How do you talk to a Neocon....

Quote:
Joe Bauers - 2/4/2005 11:23 AM

Quote:
blackmercedes - 2/3/2005 5:21 PM

Quote:
azimuth - 2/3/2005 9:03 AM

From experience, the emotional acerbic method usually presents it's point from a position of weakness. The point can be dead on, but the acid delivery taints it's credibility.
Well, I live in a very upper-middle class to quite wealthy suburban neighbourhood. We have an eclectic mix of CEO's and other execs intertwined with some academics, teachers, and a few other left-leaning kinda folks. (We bought before the real estate values bloated uncontrollably. Now I have great home equity, but a rising tax bill too. Nice.) For years, at gatherings, the neo-con greedmeisters would pat each other on the back and loudly espouse the virtures of their right-wing politics. They were very much "in your face" about it on the presumption that everyone feels the same way. Well, we don't. Being the nice, polite folks we were, we said nothing. Then, we engaged a polite debate, only to be greeted with ridicule, fabricated references (Bill O style...) and often behaviour considered beyond rude.

Well, enough. I take the high road every time the lane is clear, but sometimes it's plain blocked. I used to just park it, but not anymore. Now I unleash, and it gets ugly. And personal. Many of our richest neighbours have adult/teen children that are either in prison or on parole. Petty offenses like murder, grand theft, drug trafficking. I enjoy pointing out what top-notch parents and community minded families these folks are. While most of the neo-con middle class neighbours plant their lips firmly on the assholes of the rich assholes, (it's not tough when the entire person is basically a sphincter) I don't want/need a single thing from them, except maybe for them to pack up their criminal offspring and leave.

Years ago I used to travel in their circles, and relied on these Jackasses to earn my living. I had to keep my mouth shut, or face being excluded from the little club. The white-educated-males only little club that took the piece of the pie and then built a fence around the rest.

Did I burn my bridges to industry? Yup. And not a moment too soon.

Mean what you say
Say what you think
Think anything

(terrorist mantra from the Uber-threat Cat Stevens...)
Such a good post. I sense that the anger I feel toward the sort of mentality you have described is growing among the thinking population. At least, I hope it is. Years ago, William Fulbright wrote a book called THE ARROGANCE OF POWER. Never has that phrase resonated as it does today.

Joe B.
Funny how you never saw what the liberals were doing as ARROGANCE OF POWER when they were the majority.....becasue they were the most arrogant bastards alive...they still are.

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post #32 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 09:33 AM
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RE: How do you talk to a Neocon....

The Jerk is a classic, right up there with Young Frankenstein, and Holy Grail as an important contributer to the development of my sense of humor. Smart and sophmoric at the same time--I urge you to watch it/them!

At Madman's house]
Madman (he picks a name at random from the new phone book) Johnson, Navin, R. Sounds like a typical bastard.

[Back at the gas station]
Madman Die Navin R. Johnson. Bastard, random son of a bitch, typical run of the mill bastard.
Navin Fill 'er up?
Stan Fill 'er up son and a little bit extra! Stan Fox buying gas.
Navin Navin R. Johnson selling it sir!
Madman Got ya, you lavish typical blocking of the view of a God damn average victim bastard.
Navin Check your oil?
Stan Check away Navin R. Johnson!
Navin Oil rag at the ready sir!
Stan Lets check the oil together!
Navin Yes sir, thank you sir!
Madman Son of blocking bastard!
Stan Looks good to me sir but I'd like your opinion! (Stan's glasses slip off his nose) Damn these glasses! Looks good to me too! Hurry up son, time's a wasting! I'm going to the john. Don't forget to check the tires. Damn these glasses son!
Navin Yes sir. I damn thee!
Stan Damn! Damn these glasses!
Navin Sir! I can fix those glasses!
Stan You can? Well here, fix those suckers!
(Dramatic music plays as Navin is tossed the pair of glasses. He catches them and runs inside to fix them.)
Madman Sh!t!
(Stan comes back from the john)
Navin Sir! Guess what - I fixed 'em. I was back there thinking, what causes glasses to slip on and off and it's because when you take them on and off you're always putting pressure on the frames like this - it causes them to spread, so I put a little handle right here in the centre and it puts the pressure on the bridge where it belongs, just like the tierods on a 72 Buick, plus I put a little nose brake on to prevent slippage. Try it! Use the handle.
Stan Well, I'll be. It works! You know, I make a pretty good living selling sh!t like this. I tell you what: if I can develop this gizmo, I'll split with you fifty fifty.
Navin O.k.
Stan How much do I owe you for the gas? I got a trunk load of sh!t to sell.
Navin Twenty six, forty one.
Stan Here's a triple six! Keep the change.
Navin Wow thanks!
Madman Dead centre - say you're prayers, half breed!
(cans begin to pop on the display Navin is standing next to)
Navin Hey Harry, look at this! What's the matter with these cans?
Madman Die milk face!
(more cans pop)
Navin These cans are defective - they're springing leaks! Come over here and look at this!
Harry Listen, you better run for cover or you're going to spring a leak!
Navin Huh?
Harry We don't have defective cans, we have a defective person out there!
Navin He hates these cans! Stay away from the cans!
Madman Die gas pumper!
(the glass on a pump breaks)
Navin Get away from those cans!
(Navin runs inside the station)
Navin There's cans in there too!
(the gas station window breaks)
navin More cans!
Madman Die you bastard!
Harry He doesn't want to put holes in the cans, he want to put holes in you!
Navin What?
Madman Milk faced bastard!
Navin Oh my God, I'm endangering your life! Cover me!
Harry You're covered.
Madman Suck my toes!
Navin You stay here, I'll distract him.
(Navin pulls away in a car with no tires on, Madman follows behind)
Navin Sh!thead, come on! Come on boy! Good boy!
(Navin is chased, and eventually, pulls into a carnival lot)
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post #33 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 09:55 AM
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RE: How do you talk to a Neocon....

I loved those movies too.

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post #34 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 10:18 AM Thread Starter
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RE: How do you talk to a Neocon....

Quote:
kvining - 2/3/2005 7:35 PM

Quote:
jjl - 2/3/2005 6:08 PM

Quote:
blackmercedes - 2/4/2005 10:21 PM

Quote:
azimuth - 2/3/2005 9:03 AM

From experience, the emotional acerbic method usually presents it's point from a position of weakness. The point can be dead on, but the acid delivery taints it's credibility.
Well, I live in a very upper-middle class to quite wealthy suburban neighbourhood. We have an eclectic mix of CEO's and other execs intertwined with some academics, teachers, and a few other left-leaning kinda folks. (We bought before the real estate values bloated uncontrollably. Now I have great home equity, but a rising tax bill too. Nice.) For years, at gatherings, the neo-con greedmeisters would pat each other on the back and loudly espouse the virtures of their right-wing politics. They were very much "in your face" about it on the presumption that everyone feels the same way. Well, we don't. Being the nice, polite folks we were, we said nothing. Then, we engaged a polite debate, only to be greeted with ridicule, fabricated references (Bill O style...) and often behaviour considered beyond rude.

Well, enough. I take the high road every time the lane is clear, but sometimes it's plain blocked. I used to just park it, but not anymore. Now I unleash, and it gets ugly. And personal. Many of our richest neighbours have adult/teen children that are either in prison or on parole. Petty offenses like murder, grand theft, drug trafficking. I enjoy pointing out what top-notch parents and community minded families these folks are. While most of the neo-con middle class neighbours plant their lips firmly on the assholes of the rich assholes, (it's not tough when the entire person is basically a sphincter) I don't want/need a single thing from them, except maybe for them to pack up their criminal offspring and leave.

Years ago I used to travel in their circles, and relied on these Jackasses to earn my living. I had to keep my mouth shut, or face being excluded from the little club. The white-educated-males only little club that took the piece of the pie and then built a fence around the rest.

Did I burn my bridges to industry? Yup. And not a moment too soon.

Mean what you say
Say what you think
Think anything

(terrorist mantra from the Uber-threat Cat Stevens...)

Huge round of applause..best post I've read for ages.
I too applaud. My philosophy (and experience) exactly.
Met the mega powerful and wealthy and they left and indelible mark on me a few years back. I believed the tried and true american virtue that the hardest working and smartest got to the top. They proved that old line totally false once and for all. Now I still play the capitolistic game not to merely join them but to push them out and replace them with people who have some ability to see that values other than theirs exist and can be recognized without fear of losing their own. Like Jefferson I believe the smartest should rise to the top, not the greediest. The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
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post #35 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 11:32 AM
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RE: How do you talk to a Neocon....

Speaking of talking to people, I find that if I don't label folks dismissively and take them at their word, usually they are polite and attentive.

I know lots of folks who moved from dirt poor to middleclass. I've worked with them, for them and have had them as employees. Heck, I was them for about five years during the oil bust. Somehow, despite the difficulties thrown into my path by the George Soros' of the world, I managed to make it back into middleclass.

I have known very few extremely wealthy people. A few of them, mostly in one family, were the typical third generation ne'er to well dissipated microphilanthropists trying to buy grandpappies soul through donations to liberal causes.
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post #36 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 11:54 AM
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RE: How do you talk to a Neocon....

"The very very rich are different from you and me," Scott Fitzgerald is alleged to have said to Ernest Hemingway, who replied, "Ya, they have more money."

Joe B.
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post #37 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 09:25 PM
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RE: How do you talk to a Neocon....

Thought all of you might wish to comment on this.

http://www.clermontyellow.accountsupport.com/flash/UntilThen.swf
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post #38 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-05-2005, 01:25 PM
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RE: How do you talk to a Neocon....

Gosh, that made me want to hop in the SUV and head down to the local WalMart to pick up a dozen Chinese made Plastic American flags...it needs more shots of Walter Reed and the "liberation" of Fallujah though.
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post #39 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-05-2005, 01:56 PM
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RE: How do you talk to a Neocon....

Quote:
Zeitgeist - 2/5/2005 3:25 PM

Gosh, that made me want to hop in the SUV and head down to the local WalMart to pick up a dozen Chinese made Plastic American flags...it needs more shots of Walter Reed and the "liberation" of Fallujah though.
And while you're there, pick up a dozen of those made-in-China ribbons for the back of the SUV--you know, the ones saying SUPPORT OUR TROOPS. And while you're at it, send an extra thou or two in your tax return to help defray the cost of that joyous liberation. And don't forget a contribution to the RNC for Jeb's run in 2008--gotta keep the momentum going!

Joe B.
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post #40 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-06-2005, 11:09 AM
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RE: How do you talk to a Neocon....

Quote:
Joe Bauers - 2/5/2005 3:56 PM

Quote:
Zeitgeist - 2/5/2005 3:25 PM

Gosh, that made me want to hop in the SUV and head down to the local WalMart to pick up a dozen Chinese made Plastic American flags...it needs more shots of Walter Reed and the "liberation" of Fallujah though.
And while you're there, pick up a dozen of those made-in-China ribbons for the back of the SUV--you know, the ones saying SUPPORT OUR TROOPS. And while you're at it, send an extra thou or two in your tax return to help defray the cost of that joyous liberation. And don't forget a contribution to the RNC for Jeb's run in 2008--gotta keep the momentum going!

Joe B.
Thats a better use of tax money than supporting the DNC mouthpiece NPR and its parent entity Public Broadcasting............which is better labled Liberal Broadcasting.

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