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post #31 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-02-2005, 12:41 PM
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RE: Is it possible Bush is right?

John Kerry would have preffered for Saddam to be in power throwing people into wood chippers than to have them freely electing their own leaders....after all Saddam was a major DNC campaign contributer.

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post #32 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 11:56 AM
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RE: Is it possible Bush is right?


Iraqi women find election a cruel joke

By HOUZAN MAHMOUD
GUEST COLUMNIST

I am an Iraqi woman, and I am boycotting the elections. Women who do vote will be voting for an enslaved future. Surely, say those who support these elections, after decades of tyranny, here at last is a form of democracy, imperfect, but democracy nevertheless?

In reality, these elections are, for Iraq's women, little more than a cruel joke. Amid the suicide attacks, kidnappings and U.S.-led military assaults since Saddam Hussein's fall, the little-reported phenomenon is the sharp increase in the persecution of Iraqi women. Women are the new victims of Islamic groups intent on restoring a medieval barbarity and of a political establishment that cares little for women's empowerment.

Having for years enjoyed greater rights than other Middle East women, women in Iraq are losing even their basic freedoms -- the right to choose their clothes, the right to love or marry whom they want. Of course women suffered under Saddam. I fled his cruel regime. I personally witnessed much brutality but the subjugation of women was never a Baath Party goal. What we are seeing is deeply worrying: a reviled occupation and an openly reactionary Islamic armed insurrection taking Iraq into a new dark age.

Every day, leaflets are distributed across the country warning women against going out unveiled, wearing makeup or mixing with men. Many female university students have given up their studies to protect themselves against the Islamists.

The new norm -- enforced at the barrel of a gun by Islamic extremists -- is to see women as the repository of honor and shame, not only on behalf of family and tribe but the nation. Ken Bigley's abductors perversely wanted to redeem the "honor" of Iraq through obtaining the release of female prisoners. Since when did Islamic groups -- the very people doing the hostage taking, torturing and killing -- start caring about the rights of Iraqi women?

Take the case of Anaheed. She was suspended to a tree in the New Baghdad area of the capital and then first shot by her father (a solicitor no less) and then by each member of her tribe. She was then was cut into pieces.

This to clear the shame on the tribe's honor for having wanted to marry a man she was in love with. This happened in late 2003, months after the "liberation."

In the last six months at least eight women have been killed in Mosul alone -- all apparently by Islamic groups clamping down on female independence. Among these, a professor from the city's law school was shot and beheaded, a vet was killed on her way to work and a pharmacist from the Alkhansah hospital was shot dead on her doorstep.

The occupation has unleashed this new violence against women, while in some cases adding its own particular variety. Iraqi women have been tortured by U.S. soldiers in prisons. The social taboo against speaking about sexual abuse is so strong in Iraq that these women will almost certainly have no one to turn to upon release.

Methal Kazem is one woman who spoke publicly of her treatment by the occupiers. Last February a U.S. helicopter landed on the roof of her house. She was hooded and handcuffed and taken to Abu Ghraib.

Accused of being a former Baathist secret policewoman, she was made to run on sharp gravel, tied up and suspended and made to listen to the screaming of other inmates. She heard one man repeatedly screaming "do not touch my honor" and Methal believes that the man's wife was being raped in front of him.

When Allied forces handed over power to the interim government last June, they should, as Amnesty International has argued, have handed over prisoners. Instead they have illegally detained more than 2,000 without charge. Few of these may be women but it still leaves thousands of wives, mothers and sisters in distress and despair.

I also believe that American soldiers have raped Iraqi women. They dare not talk about it, however, as they face being killed by their own families if they do. My associates in Iraq have been counseling Liqaa, a former Iraqi female soldier, who was raped by an American soldier in November 2003. The savage truth is that if she returns home, male family members may murder her for her "dishonor."

If Iraqi women take part in the elections, who are they to vote for?

Women's rights are ignored by most of the candidates. The U.S. government appears happy to have Iraq governed by reactionary religious and ethnocentric elites.

The one glimmer of hope is that courageous demonstrations against rape and kidnapping have taken place. In September, a women's protest fused opposition to the occupation, a demand that all Islamic militia forces leave cities and a call for safe streets for women. This new women-led secular progressive movement is against the interim government and against the violence and restriction of political Islam. Those who support us should publicly renounce these phony elections and campaign for a truly free Iraq.

Houzan MahMoud, an Iraqi living in Britain, is the United Kingdom head of the Organization of Women's Freedom in Iraq. This article was first published in The Independent in Britain.


From: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/209809_iraqiwomanvote.html

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #33 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 12:22 PM
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RE: Is it possible Bush is right?

Bush IS right....and always WAS right.........

Look at Iraq..........Liberals were fighting to keep Saddam in power...........Bush took him out of power and now there is a democracy in the middle east ...besides Isreal.

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post #34 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 12:46 PM
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RE: Is it possible Bush is right?

Quote:
79-300SD - 2/8/2005 12:22 PM

... now there is a democracy in the middle east ...
Do you actually believe that Iraq is now a sovereign democracy?

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #35 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 12:58 PM
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RE: Is it possible Bush is right?

Quote:
kvining - 2/2/2005 11:37 AM

Quote:
Botnst - 2/1/2005 10:42 PM

If we hadn't been meanies with oil from Alaska that we embargoed that the Japanese Empired needed, they'd never have attacked us. We caused them to attack us, you see. And then after we prepetrated our racist, militaristic, capitalistic expansionist policy on the poetic artists of Japan, we inflicted on them, at bayonet point and under threat of nukular annhilation, a totally alien political system on them. We destroyed their cultural system that they had lived under for many generations.

Wasn't that unfair?
Again an ironic comparision. The Japanese attacked us over their access to our oil. We attacked Iraq over access to theirs. Who do we compare to here?
Well let us just expand on that little ol' insight.

What kind of gov did the various countries have?
USA - Representative liberal democracy
Japan - Military dictatorship/monarchy
Iraq - Socialist dictatorship

How were the people treated buy their respective governments?
USA - benign neglect with expanding nanny-state tendancies (pre-WW11); Full-grown nanny-state (present)
Japan - Despotic contempt; stable representative liberal democracy
Iraq - Despotic contempt then; emerging democracy now

Which ones had been engaged in military conquests of neighboring countries in the previous 50 years?
USA 1 pre-1941. None since
Japan 2-3 then. None since
Iraq 2.

Now why was Imperial Japan pissed that we quit selling them oil? Anybody?
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post #36 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 01:08 PM
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RE: Is it possible Bush is right?

So it is ok for us to act like the Japanese because we are "nice"? Under your logic, we should be able to get away with gassing Muslims.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #37 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 01:15 PM
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RE: Is it possible Bush is right?

Quote:
Botnst - 2/8/2005 12:58 PM

Which ones had been engaged in military conquests of neighboring countries in the previous 50 years?
USA 1 pre-1941. None since
None since? Are you sure?

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #38 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 01:15 PM
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RE: Is it possible Bush is right?

Umm...'neighboring', yes, nice qualifier.
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post #39 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 01:17 PM
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RE: Is it possible Bush is right?

Okay, how about wars of colonization? I'll go for that one, too.
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post #40 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-08-2005, 01:23 PM
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RE: Is it possible Bush is right?

Prior to 1941 the US invaded and occupied Cuba and the Phillipines, and invaded Nicarauga and Panama and set up puppet governments. It also imposed governments of its liking throughout Central America and the Carribean, to the point those countries were de facto colonies. The Phillipines, parts of Panama and Cuba were kept as actual colonies.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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