WTF?: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis - Page 6 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #51 of 153 (permalink) Old 02-03-2005, 11:31 PM
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RE: WTF?: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis

i wouldn't be surprised if the "New Conservatives" aka Neocons, would make that place nice too.

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post #52 of 153 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 07:05 AM
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RE: WTF?: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis

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kvining - 2/3/2005 6:00 PM

Altho I abhor the ideas the guy supports, I am becoming even more alarmed by the concerted effort to silence the man. Bill O'reilly is carrying on a personal crusade to destroy the guy, and the Right Wing Media Machine has made this guy their latest straw man. Freedom of Speech, academic freedom, both are in danger in this country. It is ironic this guy is being pilloried for his claims of Nazism by a bunch of people employing Nazi tactics to silence him.
The point is that Students were paying very good money to get an education...not hear this lunatics liberal political rants........

Doing so on his time is one thing....doing it when he was on the paying students time is another thing altogether.

A University, college or school in general is for learning....not indocrination of the students.

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post #53 of 153 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 07:41 AM
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RE: WTF?: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis

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79-300SD - 2/4/2005 7:05 AM

The point is that Students were paying very good money to get an education...not hear this lunatics liberal political rants........
Okay, so if his rants were neo-con, that's okay? I guess the cirriculum should be based on right-wing "truths?"

The whole point of "higher learning" is NOT to stand in front of the class and "tell" them the facts. That was the job of elementary school. The university system is supposed to knock them out of their seats, make them think, and develop critical thinking skills. If you sit there and believe what a professor tells you, you're an idiot and deserve to be "indoctrinated."

I had no shortage of radical ideas thrown at me in my years in post-secondary school, and often disagreed with them. Did I fail? No. Graduated near the top of my class. Could I simply disagree? No. I had to back up my position and tear down the professors hypothesis.

Maybe post-secondary education works differently in the US? In Canada, the whole point is not about facts, but about ideas. We can read old books to learn dates and trivia. The classroom is for ideas, postulation, and debate. This is a controversial idea that I would have LOVED to come out in a class. Imagine the debate. The point is not to say "you're an idiot professor Churchill." It's to tear his position down with critical thinking skills.

I didn't pay all my tuition to learn trivia. I could have stayed home and read books for that. I paid to be exposed to ideas from all angles.

I'm really trying to see things from your perspective, but I'm having trouble getting my head up my ass
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post #54 of 153 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 08:17 AM
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RE: WTF?: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis

Bot, in this case the State is the Governor who has called for the firing of Churchill. This governor actually has a long history of trying to manipulate the college curriculum of Colorado in a 'more conservative' direction. The best example I can think of is a deliberate removal of a course in Native American History from the core curriculum of a State college.

John, I agree completely. Some the best graduate courses I took were courses I selected with full knowledge that I disagreed with the fundamental views of the professor. I learned far more by engaging with the arguments of an opposing point of view.
The current governor of Colorado has, adimistratively, little sympathy for diverse sets of views in the curriculum. The more traditional, conservative, and white male the curriculum, the happier his bureaurats are.
By the way, most faculty members of Colorado's higher education have been quite happy to go along with this, including Churchill's own department. Very few dissenting voices were heard from faculty members. It has been a great disappointment to me that more faculty members have not stood up for diversity of viewpoints and courses in Colorado's curriculum. I'm afraid that Churchill will further diminish the influence of alternative views of history in Colorado college courses.

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post #55 of 153 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 08:26 AM
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RE: WTF?: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis

Quote:
blackmercedes - 2/4/2005 9:41 AM

Quote:
79-300SD - 2/4/2005 7:05 AM

The point is that Students were paying very good money to get an education...not hear this lunatics liberal political rants........
Okay, so if his rants were neo-con, that's okay? I guess the cirriculum should be based on right-wing "truths?"

The whole point of "higher learning" is NOT to stand in front of the class and "tell" them the facts. That was the job of elementary school. The university system is supposed to knock them out of their seats, make them think, and develop critical thinking skills. If you sit there and believe what a professor tells you, you're an idiot and deserve to be "indoctrinated."

I had no shortage of radical ideas thrown at me in my years in post-secondary school, and often disagreed with them. Did I fail? No. Graduated near the top of my class. Could I simply disagree? No. I had to back up my position and tear down the professors hypothesis.

Maybe post-secondary education works differently in the US? In Canada, the whole point is not about facts, but about ideas. We can read old books to learn dates and trivia. The classroom is for ideas, postulation, and debate. This is a controversial idea that I would have LOVED to come out in a class. Imagine the debate. The point is not to say "you're an idiot professor Churchill." It's to tear his position down with critical thinking skills.

I didn't pay all my tuition to learn trivia. I could have stayed home and read books for that. I paid to be exposed to ideas from all angles.
THe problem in the USA schools and Universities is NOT NeoCon educators....its liberal indocrinators who do not teach the students what they need to learn. And fail students who do not follow their socialist agendas.

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post #56 of 153 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 08:27 AM Thread Starter
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RE: WTF?: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis

So do you think that Churchill's message/antics might be a response meant to draw attention to the problem?

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post #57 of 153 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 08:36 AM
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RE: WTF?: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis

Quote:
kerry edwards - 2/4/2005 10:17 AM

Bot, in this case the State is the Governor who has called for the firing of Churchill. This governor actually has a long history of trying to manipulate the college curriculum of Colorado in a 'more conservative' direction. The best example I can think of is a deliberate removal of a course in Native American History from the core curriculum of a State college.

John, I agree completely. Some the best graduate courses I took were courses I selected with full knowledge that I disagreed with the fundamental views of the professor. I learned far more by engaging with the arguments of an opposing point of view.
The current governor of Colorado has, adimistratively, little sympathy for diverse sets of views in the curriculum. The more traditional, conservative, and white male the curriculum, the happier his bureaurats are.
By the way, most faculty members of Colorado's higher education have been quite happy to go along with this, including Churchill's own department. Very few dissenting voices were heard from faculty members. It has been a great disappointment to me that more faculty members have not stood up for diversity of viewpoints and courses in Colorado's curriculum. I'm afraid that Churchill will further diminish the influence of alternative views of history in Colorado college courses.
Funny....A liberal is not going to see the point.

Colleges are NOT supposed to be liberal indocrination centers.

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post #58 of 153 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 08:43 AM
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RE: WTF?: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis

No I don't think Churchill's actions are a response to the problem. He strikes me as a grandstander. I don't have much respect for a man who holds his views but fails to enter the bureaucratic trenches in an effort to defend diversity in the college curriculum. There waa an Hispanic Studies professor at Metropolitan State College of Denver who made a serious attempt to speak out for diversity. He failed and has since retired. He has much more of my respect than Churchill.

I was scheduled to testify at a public hearing of the Colorado Commission of Higher Education on the role of faculty in determining college curriculum. The Governor's appointee who was head of the commission walked into the meeting, saw that I and another faculty member were going to testify publically, walked out of the meeting and called the president of the community college system of Colorado and ordered him to get down the meeting and drag us out since he didn't want faculty members opposing his agenda.
The fundamental problem was that someone other than the Governor's appointee wanted to have their voices heard in the discussion about what constituted a good college education.
Ward Churchill was nowhere to be seen in those discussions.
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post #59 of 153 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 08:46 AM
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RE: WTF?: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis

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79-300SD - 2/4/2005 8:26 AM
THe problem in the USA schools and Universities is NOT NeoCon educators....its liberal indocrinators who do not teach the students what they need to learn. And fail students who do not follow their socialist agendas.
How did youcope? How did you make it through the indoctrination process with your one-dimensional viewpoints intact?

I'm really trying to see things from your perspective, but I'm having trouble getting my head up my ass
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post #60 of 153 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 09:32 AM
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RE: WTF?: Prof Won't Back Down On Comparing WTC Victims To Nazis

Quote:
blackmercedes - 2/4/2005 10:46 AM

Quote:
79-300SD - 2/4/2005 8:26 AM
THe problem in the USA schools and Universities is NOT NeoCon educators....its liberal indocrinators who do not teach the students what they need to learn. And fail students who do not follow their socialist agendas.
How did youcope? How did you make it through the indoctrination process with your one-dimensional viewpoints intact?
My viewpoints are no more one-deminsional than those of the liberals............The conservative viewpoint is far more enightened in fact.

Listen to all the liberal crybabies whining all day long because nobody will do things exactly the way the DNC wants them done.

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