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post #31 of 86 (permalink) Old 01-30-2005, 03:49 PM
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RE: Congratulations due...

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jamminjames - 1/30/2005 3:24 PM

Now I'll get off my soapbox..
Careful with that first step -- it seems to be rather lofty...

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post #32 of 86 (permalink) Old 01-30-2005, 03:56 PM
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RE: Congratulations due...

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Botnst - 1/30/2005 3:16 PM

As long as the thread is hijacked, what did you do to get the boot? The pattern of slain members eludes me as to be nearly random. It really is like the Bible says, "...raining on the just and the unjust", isn't it?
Just curious, but how does your score card read (in relation to just and unjust? Too bad azimuth wasn't given the opportunity of offering a final retort after his ascension to purgatory -- "kiss my az!"......

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #33 of 86 (permalink) Old 01-30-2005, 04:11 PM
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RE: Congratulations due...

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Botnst - 1/30/2005 5:16 PM

As long as the thread is hijacked, what did you do to get the boot? The pattern of slain members eludes me as to be nearly random. It really is like the Bible says, "...raining on the just and the unjust", isn't it?
I haven't had contact with Mod since my excommunication, so this is a guess. I read a thread wherein a poster attacked the others as being juvenile with the quality of the content of thier posts. I thought it was out of line, though I was not one of the originals participants. I wrote a one liner that described what I thought of the offender's post. I was careful not to attack him/her personally though. It was not well recieved. Bueno pues, que me besen el culo. That is the of kiss my AZ, in espanol

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post #34 of 86 (permalink) Old 01-30-2005, 05:59 PM
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RE: Congratulations due...

Like I said in another thread,.. perhaps in a few decades they Iraqi people will be able to think and fend for themselves, and not rely on external help/iterference. I wish them luck.

Next stop,... IRAN!![;)]

(BTW, for the slow ones out there, I'm being sarcastic)
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post #35 of 86 (permalink) Old 01-30-2005, 06:11 PM
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RE: Congratulations due...

Quote:
azimuth - 1/30/2005 6:11 PM

Quote:
Botnst - 1/30/2005 5:16 PM

As long as the thread is hijacked, what did you do to get the boot? The pattern of slain members eludes me as to be nearly random. It really is like the Bible says, "...raining on the just and the unjust", isn't it?
I haven't had contact with Mod since my excommunication, so this is a guess. I read a thread wherein a poster attacked the others as being juvenile with the quality of the content of thier posts. I thought it was out of line, though I was not one of the originals participants. I wrote a one liner that described what I thought of the offender's post. I was careful not to attack him/her personally though. It was not well recieved. Bueno pues, que me besen el culo. That is the of kiss my AZ, in espanol
From what I have seen, there are two approaches to moderating a truly open forum, one is "wild west" as we see here, and the other is a moderator who actually takes part in the threads by giving a little nudge here and there, of which the forum "Internet Infidels" is an excellant example. The Shop was unwilling to do either, and ended up resorting to some pretty juvenile tactics - the end result of which is a little ironic, because now the mods have do do the nudge thing (with a meatax, however) so in the end they wind up doing as much work as they would if they just refereed once and a while instead of relying on their email box. The results are pretty sad - the forum is now utterly boring.



Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #36 of 86 (permalink) Old 01-30-2005, 07:11 PM
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RE: Congratulations due...

Bot,

I am personally very pleased the Iraqis took this opportunity, given to them at great cost to the American people, and voted. It says something positive.

I also find the fact that we did this in the manner we did it repugnant. We were lied to and manipulated by our nation's leaders. While giving the Iraqis this opportunity may seem to you to have been a noble cause, for me it was front for something ignoble and sinister. Greed. The plan will unfold slowly, but it will unfold. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and America withers away, poisoned by the constant diet of bullshit.

You connect our acts of greed and malice to the remarkable and brave Iraqi response to this opportunity to vote for a new government. I don't, they are coincidental to me. The circumstances that arose after the WMD bullshit, the UN inspectors being incompetent bullshit, and the "Shock and Awe" bullshit, and all the other bullshit, brought about the bullshit about a mission to help the Iraqi people become free.

As much as I find Bush and his bullshit offensive, and as much as I would like someone to reveal some graphic evidence of Bush and Rice engaged in some sexual relationship just to see how that went down in town, and as much as I find the means to get to this point bullshit, I hope our American soldiers have not died for nothing, and I do hope Iraq pulls itself out of the hole and learns to make the most of its resources, including its people.

What happens next though, is anyone's guess. As I have noted earlier on one of these open/off-topic discussions, I think the task of the insurgents just got easier. They can plummet the country into chaos and terror by assassinating the elected officials. But you are correct. We should take their turn out under the circumstances as a big thank-you to us and be impressed with their spirit. Jim

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post #37 of 86 (permalink) Old 01-30-2005, 07:38 PM
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RE: Congratulations due...

Anyways...

Here is a good column that puts things into a different perspective.
Quote:
"No arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women." -- Ronald Reagan

Like most Americans, I've never had to be brave to vote. I just show up at the polls, negotiate the ballot, grab an "I voted" sticker and drive home satisfied that the world will continue to turn on its axis in the usual way.

Piece of cake, democracy.

Then again, not really. As I was pondering today's elections in Iraq -- and wondering whether I'd have the courage to vote under such circumstances -- I was reminded that not so long ago one group of Americans had to be that brave.

It was just 40 years ago in the United States that many African-Americans were prevented from voting and some killed for trying, as were whites who tried to help them. It was only after numerous acts of violence and, yes, terrorism against blacks that the 1965 Voting Rights Act passed. Imagine that.

In Iraq, terrorists and insurgents loyal to the former Baathist regime try to terrorize men and women who wish only to exercise their right to control their own destiny. In the South of the 1960s, terrorists loyal to segregation and Jim Crow hid behind white sheets while they burned crosses and terrorized blacks who wanted only to control their own destinies. They behead; we lynched. Imagine that.

It's interesting when suicide bombers blow up a building and kill innocents in Iraq, we know to call it terrorism. When bombers detonated their evil in a Birmingham, Ala., church, killing four girls, that, too, was terrorism. It was also terrorism when members of the Ku Klux Klan kidnapped and murdered three voting-rights activists in Philadelphia, Miss.

There is at this historic juncture a certain poetic symmetry as events unfold. On the eve of free elections in Iraq, our own history is circling back on itself. Just a couple of weeks ago, former KKK leader Edgar Ray Killen, 80, the man accused of orchestrating the 1964 murders of civil-rights workers Michael Schwerner, Andrew Goodman and James Chaney, was indicted and faces trial March 28.

Forty years. Justice is not always swift, nor is the march to freedom easy. Democracy, as we seem to relearn each election season, is hard, messy work. So that witnessing the birth of democracy in Iraq, counting the painful contractions from afar, is both breathtaking and awesome.

I imagine that Iraqis walking to the polls today -- anticipating the possibility of violence -- must feel what American marchers, black and white, felt on March 7, 1965, as they started across the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma, Ala., toward the state capitol in Montgomery.

Like today's Iraqis, all they wanted was to vote. They, too, must have felt their stomachs knot, knowing that armed state troopers at any moment might rain violence on their unprotected heads. Which, of course, they did. Insurgents in Iraq; state-sanctioned terror in America. We have seen this before.

We've come a long way.

And so have Iraqis. In less than two years, they've been invaded, liberated, occupied and now face their first election with some 7,000 candidates and 111 political parties. Americans can follow the election through a team of Iraqi bloggers, who will be reporting real-time from the ground, thanks to Jim Hake and his Spirit of America, a nonprofit, nonpolitical charity that donates money and resources to advance democracy.

Working with Friends of Democracy in Iraq, Hake has recruited some 15 Iraqis -- including journalists, a naval officer, students and a psychiatrist -- who will be blogging from different cities and provinces at the Friends of Democracy site (www.friendsofdemocracy.org). I, for one, will be riveted.

Whether or not one agrees with the war that brought Iraq to this point, no American can watch these proceedings without wonder and respect. We've been there. We've had our own revolutions and our own demons to pursue. More than anyone else on the planet, we should be cheering them on.

I don't know how those Iraqi men and women, some of whom reportedly have sworn a last will and testament in preparation to vote, will make the trek from their homes to the polls. Just as I don't know how those marchers in Selma made it across the bridge with their heads split and their shirts bloody. But they did.

Here's hoping Iraqis will, too.

By Kathleen Parker
Tribune Media Services
Kathleen Parker: kparker@kparker.com

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post #38 of 86 (permalink) Old 01-30-2005, 08:15 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Congratulations due...

Jim, I wasn't lied to. Sorry you were.

Lets not go through all that again, okay?
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post #39 of 86 (permalink) Old 01-30-2005, 08:17 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Congratulations due...

Quote:
jamminjames - 1/30/2005 9:38 PM

Anyways...

Here is a good column that puts things into a different perspective.
Quote:
"No arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women." -- Ronald Reagan

Like most Americans, I've never had to be brave to vote. I just show up at the polls, negotiate the ballot, grab an "I voted" sticker and drive home satisfied that the world will continue to turn on its axis in the usual way.

Piece of cake, democracy.

...
Here's hoping Iraqis will, too.

By Kathleen Parker
Tribune Media Services
Kathleen Parker: kparker@kparker.com
I like that, Jammmin'. Thanks for posting it. I am more than happy to be on this side of the Selma Bridge.
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post #40 of 86 (permalink) Old 01-30-2005, 08:18 PM
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RE: Congratulations due...

Quote:
Botnst - 1/31/2005 3:15 AM

Jim, I wasn't lied to. Sorry you were.

Lets not go through all that again, okay?
You've got to be joking. You mean that you cannot detect ONE single lie? P<0.001.

edit; i forgot, my mistake: 'A lie told often enough becomes the truth'.
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