illegal immigration-how the democrats could regain power tomorrow - Page 7 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #61 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-29-2005, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
azimuth's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
RE: illegal immigration-how the democrats could regain power tomorrow

Quote:
kuan1 - 1/29/2005 8:22 AM

Quote:
azimuth - 1/28/2005 9:54 PM
the Q I have Kuan is this, did you or anyone pay into SSI for the ditch digging work?
Nope. But neither does the kid who does yards, or the kids who sell lemonade on street corners.

Politicians don't like to pay taxes on their domestic help either. Makes for many embarassing moments and the odd failed comfirmation hearing or two. [B)]
well Kuan, does the common practice make it right? does it put an unfair burden on the compliant?

the honest answers to these Qs will lead you to my point.

aborted Shop Forum member

azimuth is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-29-2005, 12:36 PM
BenzWorld Member
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: Passat Variant
Location: Up Nord
Posts: 314
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to kuan1
RE: illegal immigration-how the democrats could regain power tomorrow

OK I'll bite. Let's say no in general. Rightness and wrongness have nothing to do with whether or not everyone does it. I'd like to add though that standards of acceptance guide most of our actions and that's all that they are. So this summer I don't report my income from mowing lawns to the IRS. It's OK by my neighbors so it's OK by me. It would be different if I had a landscaping company.

All hail the Sixteen Men of Tain!
kuan1 is offline  
post #63 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-29-2005, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
azimuth's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
RE: illegal immigration-how the democrats could regain power tomorrow

Quote:
kuan1 - 1/29/2005 2:36 PM

OK I'll bite. Let's say no in general. Rightness and wrongness have nothing to do with whether or not everyone does it. I'd like to add though that standards of acceptance guide most of our actions and that's all that they are. So this summer I don't report my income from mowing lawns to the IRS. It's OK by my neighbors so it's OK by me. It would be different if I had a landscaping company.
Kuan, let me just say that I respect the pre-taxation era mentality you have. It is the basis of how this democratic republic was established. It is how i wish things could be again. However, it will never happen in my life. The nature of the world and our society have made necesary the taxation of the people.

that having been said, in all fairness, if one lives in and benefits from a society, one should also be expected to contribute. That is the polemic which drives this subject.

I'll tell you what, If I ever find another "new world" in which to begin again and live/survive through our talents and efforts alone, you, and folks like you, are welcome there. I think you'd be an asset to that society.

aborted Shop Forum member

azimuth is offline  
post #64 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-29-2005, 03:18 PM
BenzWorld Member
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: Passat Variant
Location: Up Nord
Posts: 314
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to kuan1
RE: illegal immigration-how the democrats could regain power tomorrow

Quote:
azimuth - 1/29/2005 3:28 PM

Quote:
kuan1 - 1/29/2005 2:36 PM

OK I'll bite. Let's say no in general. Rightness and wrongness have nothing to do with whether or not everyone does it. I'd like to add though that standards of acceptance guide most of our actions and that's all that they are. So this summer I don't report my income from mowing lawns to the IRS. It's OK by my neighbors so it's OK by me. It would be different if I had a landscaping company.
Kuan, let me just say that I respect the pre-taxation era mentality you have. It is the basis of how this democratic republic was established. It is how i wish things could be again. However, it will never happen in my life. The nature of the world and our society have made necesary the taxation of the people.

that having been said, in all fairness, if one lives in and benefits from a society, one should also be expected to contribute. That is the polemic which drives this subject.

I'll tell you what, If I ever find another "new world" in which to begin again and live/survive through our talents and efforts alone, you, and folks like you, are welcome there. I think you'd be an asset to that society.
I get it. I actually have no problem paying my taxes. But I don't think I should have to report $20 here and $45 there, not to mention call the IRS on the neighbor's kid who is trying to make a few bucks shoveling snow.

All hail the Sixteen Men of Tain!
kuan1 is offline  
post #65 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-29-2005, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
azimuth's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
RE: illegal immigration-how the democrats could regain power tomorrow

it would be tedious to do as you describe with minor expenditures. To the point, there is an entire underground economy that is not, but should be, contributing. Illegals have already shown thier willingness to benefit, yea, even demand, from this economy and the society that supports it. I think it only fair that everyone who benefits, contribute.

have i bruised the dead horse yet?

aborted Shop Forum member

azimuth is offline  
post #66 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-29-2005, 05:32 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 95 E300
Location: Inside my head
Posts: 36,850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
RE: illegal immigration-how the democrats could regain power tomorrow

Generally speaking, if people trust the government and believe it is fair they don't support black markets and clandestine economies. The problem is NOT that illegals are here. The problem is that our laws stand in the way of legal aliens working at jobs and at a compensation that Americans wont take. The labor laws and trade laws are unfair and impracticale--developed in a time of this country so long gone that current laws are anachronisms and as a result, teh citizens are cynical and mistrustful of government.

Don't need more laws. Need less laws and better laws.
Botnst is offline  
post #67 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-29-2005, 06:49 PM
BenzWorld Member
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: Passat Variant
Location: Up Nord
Posts: 314
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to kuan1
RE: illegal immigration-how the democrats could regain power tomorrow

Quote:
azimuth - 1/29/2005 5:31 PM

it would be tedious to do as you describe with minor expenditures. To the point, there is an entire underground economy that is not, but should be, contributing. Illegals have already shown thier willingness to benefit, yea, even demand, from this economy and the society that supports it. I think it only fair that everyone who benefits, contribute.

have i bruised the dead horse yet?
I don't think it's fair to say that they don't want to contribute. I'm willing to bet that most of them would jump at the chance to work legally and eventually become citizens. Nobody's ever bothered to ask them. They're essentially voiceless, unorganized, and crapped upon. Even so they're still willing to work at less than the going rate and they're willing to work harder. Anyone who is willing to work in these conditions, without benefits, without legal protection, is worthy of at least some respect.

All hail the Sixteen Men of Tain!
kuan1 is offline  
post #68 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-29-2005, 10:29 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
azimuth's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
RE: illegal immigration-how the democrats could regain power tomorrow

Quote:
kuan1 - 1/29/2005 8:49 PM

Quote:
azimuth - 1/29/2005 5:31 PM

it would be tedious to do as you describe with minor expenditures. To the point, there is an entire underground economy that is not, but should be, contributing. Illegals have already shown thier willingness to benefit, yea, even demand, from this economy and the society that supports it. I think it only fair that everyone who benefits, contribute.

have i bruised the dead horse yet?
I don't think it's fair to say that they don't want to contribute. I'm willing to bet that most of them would jump at the chance to work legally and eventually become citizens. Nobody's ever bothered to ask them. They're essentially voiceless, unorganized, and crapped upon. Even so they're still willing to work at less than the going rate and they're willing to work harder. Anyone who is willing to work in these conditions, without benefits, without legal protection, is worthy of at least some respect.
it is not my position that they do not want to contribute. It is my position that subcontractors in this area search these folks out to work'em and not have to pay matching taxes, SSI and workers comp. That practice is cheating and raises undue pressure on employers who are playing by the rules and want to pay thier employees a fair wage+benefits.

Mexicans will always have my respect. I lived with them in mexico for years. I learned to admire thier willingnes to work for what they want. Coming here illegally is the wrong way to go about it. Itg perpetuates the cheap labor mentality I've described.

aborted Shop Forum member

azimuth is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome