Who was the greatest American villain of the 20th century? - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #21 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 09:11 AM
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RE: Who was the greatest American villain of the 20th century?

Alger Hiss

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post #22 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 09:23 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Who was the greatest American villain of the 20th century?

Wasn't Hiss pretty much exonerated? I think many folks see him as a victim, although I know there will always be doubt.

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post #23 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 09:46 AM
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RE: Who was the greatest American villain of the 20th century?

There are so many to choose from the 20th (Hitler, Stalin and all the ruthless wealthy)... But the clear leader of EVIL in the 21st Century is none other than the W. now serving time as our potus. He has made the idea of political freedom synonymous with hypocrisy. He has also made the United States the bad guy in the world view. The reverberations from his actions will take decades to correct.
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post #24 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 09:50 AM
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RE: Who was the greatest American villain of the 20th century?

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GermanStar - 1/26/2005 11:23 AM

Wasn't Hiss pretty much exonerated? I think many folks see him as a victim, although I know there will always be doubt.
alger was exonerated by the media as it existed back then. He was then confirmed to have been an active spy complete with transfering nuclear secrets to the soviets. This was confirmed by the released and publicized soviet docs provided by the former soviet union in the recent past.

the damamge he caused led to billions of dollars spent in the arms race. He was the top advisor to Roosevelt. Roosevelt ignored the warnings that he was a spy.

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post #25 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 09:53 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Who was the greatest American villain of the 20th century?

I found more than one source that disputes your account (the Russians actually cleared him):

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAhiss.htm

http://www.mdarchives.state.md.us/ec.../00010016.html

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post #26 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 09:59 AM
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RE: Who was the greatest American villain of the 20th century?

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GermanStar - 1/26/2005 11:23 AM

Wasn't Hiss pretty much exonerated? I think many folks see him as a victim, although I know there will always be doubt.
I have a hard time seeing him as a great villian - what damage did he actually do, even if he was a spy? From what I recollect, he was nothing more than a scarecrow McCarthy and Nixon created as a "communist infiltrator". Compared to the Rosenbergs, who revealed the secrets of the Atomic Bomb to the Russians, or Aldrich Aims, the mole who betrayed hundreds of US agents to the Soviet firing squads, Hiss was a nobody.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

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post #27 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 10:03 AM
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RE: Who was the greatest American villain of the 20th century?

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azimuth - 1/26/2005 11:50 AM

Quote:
GermanStar - 1/26/2005 11:23 AM

Wasn't Hiss pretty much exonerated? I think many folks see him as a victim, although I know there will always be doubt.
alger was exonerated by the media as it existed back then. He was then confirmed to have been an active spy complete with transfering nuclear secrets to the soviets. This was confirmed by the released and publicized soviet docs provided by the former soviet union in the recent past.

the damamge he caused led to billions of dollars spent in the arms race. He was the top advisor to Roosevelt. Roosevelt ignored the warnings that he was a spy.
I believe you have Hiss mixed up with the Rosenbergs. Hiss worked for the State Dept, and had no access to nuclear secrets. Hiss was far from exonerated - he served two years in prison. Prior to 1965 and the Vietnam War, the press in this country was as paranoid about "commies" as everyoe else was, and they persecuted Hiss as much as everyone else did.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #28 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Who was the greatest American villain of the 20th century?

Oh he was prosecuted and convicted, and he did time as you say, but he was essentially exonerated in the early 90s (after the fact so to speak).


The Rosenburgs (shudder......) -- now they were frickin' evil.

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post #29 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 12:17 PM
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RE: Who was the greatest American villain of the 20th century?

thanks for the links Germanstar. I don't have time to study up on it right now, but years ago i read a report that linked Alger Hiss with the recruitment of multiple soviet agents and the traffic of smuggled nuclear secrets that those agents created.....to include the Rosenbergs who also proclaimed thier innocence up to the day of thier execution.

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post #30 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-26-2005, 03:42 PM
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RE: Who was the greatest American villain of the 20th century?

From what I recall in the 1990's reappraisal, folks who were convinced of his guilt remained so and folks who were convinced of his innocence remained so. The info from the KGB files was never reviewed by anybody not connected with the KGB. The FBI files indicated some dishonesty on the part of the FBI concerning evidence.

His perjury conviction was for a charge of lying about a crime for which he was not convicted.

Being a believer in 'innocent until proven guilty', I'm waiting for compelling evidence from anywhere that indicates guilt. Otherwise, IMO he didn't do it and the perjury conviction was one of those bureaucratic add-on charges that prosecutors love so much.

If you're into the conspiracy side of things, National Review published several articles about Hiss. Back in the 1990's I think they were desparate to prove that Whitaker Chambers was right and so, looked into the evidence from that perspective. I doubt anybody will ever write about him without being tainted by prejudice one way or the other.

What a great surname! It's like a Dickens bad guy name. Scrooge. Hiss.
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