Blood Bath in Iraq Continues - Page 14 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #131 of 175 (permalink) Old 02-20-2005, 09:20 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Blood Bath in Iraq Continues

Actually, the regime of Saddam Hussien did that, the same as the regime of Stalin did what they did. The Baath Party is a legitimate party through out the Middle East. Why are they banned in Iraq? Simple - they advocate nationalizing oil company assets, and Arabs vote for them in droves, which is how the Baathists get into power in the first place. your "democracy" is a sham, and denying these people a rightful place in it is what is fueling your insurgency.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #132 of 175 (permalink) Old 02-20-2005, 09:27 PM
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RE: Blood Bath in Iraq Continues

Quote:
kvining - 2/20/2005 11:20 PM

Actually, the regime of Saddam Hussien did that, the same as the regime of Stalin did what they did. The Baath Party is a legitimate party through out the Middle East. Why are they banned in Iraq? Simple - they advocate nationalizing oil company assets, and Arabs vote for them in droves, which is how the Baathists get into power in the first place. your "democracy" is a sham, and denying these people a rightful place in it is what is fueling your insurgency.
Kirk. The Baathists are different in every country. They claim some pan-Arabist objectives but each country shifts the definition for local ends. Just like the Communists of the previous century were not monolithic.

Saddam's version of Baathism is a bloody dictatorship with a Baathists bureaucracy. The bureacracy was an intimidation, favoritism, and killing machine like the Nazis were. I suspect and believe that when the Baathists stop their hand in the insurrection that they will have a path of rehabilitation open to them in the same that that most Nazis had. Take a breath and think about it: Would it have been wise to allow the Nazis right back into Germany? Of course not. We intentionally and with prejudice prevented Nazis from participating. I don't think anybody apologizes for that, do you?

B
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post #133 of 175 (permalink) Old 02-25-2005, 01:22 AM
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RE: Blood Bath in Iraq Continues

just another update... things aren't as peachy as the talking heads would have you beleive....

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050225/D88FD7580.html



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post #134 of 175 (permalink) Old 02-25-2005, 06:25 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Blood Bath in Iraq Continues

Quote:
Botnst - 2/20/2005 11:27 PM

Quote:
kvining - 2/20/2005 11:20 PM

Actually, the regime of Saddam Hussien did that, the same as the regime of Stalin did what they did. The Baath Party is a legitimate party through out the Middle East. Why are they banned in Iraq? Simple - they advocate nationalizing oil company assets, and Arabs vote for them in droves, which is how the Baathists get into power in the first place. your "democracy" is a sham, and denying these people a rightful place in it is what is fueling your insurgency.
Kirk. The Baathists are different in every country. They claim some pan-Arabist objectives but each country shifts the definition for local ends. Just like the Communists of the previous century were not monolithic.

Saddam's version of Baathism is a bloody dictatorship with a Baathists bureaucracy. The bureacracy was an intimidation, favoritism, and killing machine like the Nazis were. I suspect and believe that when the Baathists stop their hand in the insurrection that they will have a path of rehabilitation open to them in the same that that most Nazis had. Take a breath and think about it: Would it have been wise to allow the Nazis right back into Germany? Of course not. We intentionally and with prejudice prevented Nazis from participating. I don't think anybody apologizes for that, do you?

B
So these Baathists in Iraq are "different"? Gee, I just thought it was a consistent ideology that had a right to have a place at the voting booth. Saddam's "version" of Baathism is the same version found throughout the Arab world, the only "difference" was Saddam. Tell me, the Likkud party and its leader, Sharon, that rules Israel has been implicated in the massacre of Palestinians in Lebanon and various other violations of the law. Should the Likkud be outlawed? How about Sein Fenn? The Republican Party is responsible for the deaths of thousands around the world. How about them?

Baathism is not Nazism, it does not inherently advocate genocide and other criminal behavior. If a person is guilty of no crime, he should be free to run for office under that platform, and others should be free to vote for him. Many, many people would agree that our key mistake in this war was outlawing the Baath Party, causing the collapse of Iraqi society and its authority structures. Of course, to the Republican fascists, this was necessary no matter what the cost, because for the oil companies, Baathism and not WMDs has always been the core problem in Iraq that needed to be solved. If they were allowed to run, they would win at least 30% of the vote, if not the election itself, as it is the only party that cuts across religious lines in Iraq - there are Christian Baathists, Shiite Baathists, Sunni Baathists - all who desire Arab nationalism over religious theocracy. To not allow these people a voice is an act of colonialism on our part, and will only fuel the insurgency and leave a permanent underground in Iraqi society, just as the British did, an underground from which Saddam sprung. You can sit there and wave your little flag and polish the little yellow ribbon on your car, myself, I am smart enough to see what this war really is - a war on the Baath Party bought and paid for by the oil oligarchs.




Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #135 of 175 (permalink) Old 02-25-2005, 11:43 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Blood Bath in Iraq Continues

The Iraq Civil War continues:


Iraq blast kills 3 U.S. troops
Al-Zarqawi aides arrested
Friday, February 25, 2005 Posted: 11:58 AM EST (1658 GMT)


BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Attackers killed three U.S. soldiers just north of Baghdad and a driver carrying journalists in Iskandariya on Friday, a day after a string of attacks targeting Iraqi police.

A roadside bomb exploded in the town of Tarmiya as a convoy passed, killing three Task Force Baghdad soldiers and wounding nine, a spokesman for the 3rd Infantry Division said. Tarmiya is about 20 miles north of Baghdad.

Another Task Force Baghdad soldier died Friday in "non-battle injuries."

The incidents bring the number of U.S. troops killed in the war to 1,491.

In Iskandariya, a restive town in northern Babil province 30 miles south of Baghdad, three masked gunmen fired on a car carrying employees of the al-Hurra television network Friday morning, killing the driver, police said.

"Three masked terrorists" drove up next to the car carrying al-Hurra staff and opened fire, killing the driver instantly, police said.

Al-Hurra reporter Mohammed Sharif was wounded and was taken to a hospital in Hilla, south of Iskandariya, police said. Hilla police sent patrols to the area in an effort to capture the attackers.

An al-Hurra correspondent was killed in Basra earlier this month when a group of masked men opened fire as he stood by a car outside his house while his bodyguards returned inside. Abdul-Hussein Khazal's 3-year-old son, Mohammed, also was hit by gunfire and later died.

On Thursday, insurgents launched attacks against police targets in Tikrit, Iskandariya and Kirkuk, killing at least 16 officers.

The deadliest incident occurred in Tikrit, where a suicide car bomber, dressed as an Iraqi police officer, drove into a police compound and detonated the device.

The blast killed 12 policemen and wounding 29 officers.

A Polish soldier and two Iraqi civilians were killed Friday in a traffic accident in Diwaniya, 100 miles southeast of Baghdad. It was the 17th Polish fatality during the nearly two-year-long war in Iraq.

Al-Zarqawi aids snared
Two associates of terrorist mastermind Abu Musab al-Zarqawi were arrested in a recent raid, the Iraqi government said Friday.

Talib Mikhlif Arsan Walman al-Dulaymi, a key lieutenant of al-Zarqawi and also known as Abu Qutaybah, was arrested in a Sunday raid in Anah by Iraqi security forces. Anah is in western Iraq not far from Syria in Al Anbar province.

Also captured was Ahmad Khalid Marad Isma'il al-Rawi, also known as Abu Uthman.

The government said Abu Qutaybah is a key associate who has "extensive contacts and operational ability" throughout western Iraq.

"Abu Qutaybah was responsible for determining who, when and how terrorist network leaders would meet with al-Zarqawi," the government said.

"Abu Qutaybah filled the role of key lieutenant for the Zarqawi network arranging safe houses and transportation as well as passing packages and funds to al-Zarqawi."

His extensive contacts and operational ability throughout western Iraq made him a critical figure in the al-Zarqawi network.

"Abu Qutaybah was a known associate of other detained al-Zarqawi lieutenants, including Abu Abdul Rahman, Abu Ahmed and Abu Ali, who were captured by coalition forces," the government said.

The government said al-Rawi has "arranged meetings for Zarqawi and occasionally acted as his driver."

The al-Zarqawi terror network has been responsible for suicide bombings, kidnappings and beheadings.

Allawi: Strong support for secular leaders
Iraqi political parties continue to discuss the formation of the new transitional government.

Interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, a prospective candidate for prime minister, said that as a secular politician, he feels he is more qualified than a religious candidate to help shape the new government.

The United Iraqi Alliance, the Shiite-led coalition that won last month's elections for the 275-member transitional National Assembly, has chosen Ibrahim al-Jaafari to be its candidate for prime minister. Al-Jaafari leads the religious Dawa Party.

Allawi's slate of candidates won 40 seats in the elections, but he said he is putting together a coalition of backers that includes some Kurds and United Iraqi Alliance members.

"My slate plus other groups have been putting a lot of pressure and demands that we should put other names forward. And they picked me up again," he said.

Allawi said he believed his position as a secular politician will help him.

"I think this is definitely one of the reasons. I don't believe that political Islam should be ruling Iraq. I think this probably would be problematic."

Al-Jaafari has a reputation as a unifier and someone who is inclined to reach out to other groups, such as Kurds and Sunni Arabs.


Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #136 of 175 (permalink) Old 02-28-2005, 08:01 AM
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RE: Blood Bath in Iraq Continues

More minor insurgent problems...




BBC NEWS 28/02/05

Iraq car bombing causes carnage



It is the deadliest bombing in Iraq for months
At least 110 people have been killed in a massive car bomb south of Baghdad, local medical officials say.

At least 130 others have been wounded in the blast in Hilla, 100km (60 miles) south of the capital.

The car, reportedly driven by a suicide bomber, exploded near a queue of people applying for government jobs.

Iraqi insurgents are waging a violent campaign against US-backed authorities, targeting anyone associated with the government.

Death toll 'to rise'

A statement from local police said a suicide car bomb "hit a gathering of people who were applying for work in the security services", the Associated Press news agency reported.


All the hospital's rooms, even those used for cardiology, are filled with the wounded
Mohammed Dia
Hilla hospital

"Several people" were arrested in connection with the blast, the statement added, without elaborating further.

Torn limbs, feet and other body parts littered the street after the blast.

Footage showed pools of blood at the scene, with dozens of people helping to put body parts into blankets. Shoes and tattered clothes were piled up in a corner.

"I was lined up near the medical centre, waiting for my turn for the medical exam in order to apply for work in the police," Abdullah Salih, 22, told the AP news agency.



DEADLIEST ATTACKS
29 July 2004: A suicide car bomb kills at least 70 people in a busy street in Baquba
2 March 2004: Co-ordinated attacks outside mosques in Karbala and Baghdad kill more than 170 people and wounds dozens more
10 February 2004: A suicide bomb outside a police station in Iskandariya kills 55 people
1 February 2004: A double suicide attacks outside Kurdish party offices kill 105 in Irbil
23 August 2003: A car bomb outside a mosque in Najaf kills at least 83 people
19 August 2004: A truck bomb outside UN headquarters in Baghdad kills 22 people
Sources: AP, AFP


"Suddenly I heard a very big explosion. I was thrown several meters away and I had burns in my legs and hands, then I was taken to the hospital," he said.

Muhsin Hadi, 29, broke his leg in the blast. "I was lucky because I was the last person in line when the explosion took place," he told AP.

"Suddenly there was panic and many frightened people stepped on me. I lost consciousness and the next thing I was aware of was being in the hospital," he said.

The director of the Hilla teaching hospital, Mohammed Dia, told the BBC the explosion was far worse than anything the town had ever experience before.

He said the number of dead was likely to rise, partly because some of the injured were in a serious condition, and partly because some of the victims had been blown to pieces.

"All the hospital's rooms, even those used for cardiology, are filled with the wounded," he said.

Security

A medical official told the Reuters news agency that local people had been called on to donate blood and that expert assistance had been requested from further afield.

"We've called on doctors from Karbala, Diwaniya and Najaf to come and help and they have started to arrive," he said.

Map of Iraq showing location of Hilla

A spokesman for Iraq's Red Crescent Society said the agency was also sending emergency medicine and doctors to the town.

The attack comes as Interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi said Iraq's security forces were still unable to take on the insurgency without the help of US troops.

"Iraqis should be able to start taking over more and more security responsibilities very soon," he wrote in the Wall Street Journal.

"But we will continue to need and to seek assistance for some time to come."

Iraqi groups are holding talks over forming a new, Shia-dominated government following last month's general elections.

Hilla is a mainly Shia town, and Sunni militants have been openly striking at Shia targets in an attempt to stir up sectarian strife, says the BBC's Jim Muir in Baghdad.

In another incident, a US soldier was shot and killed in Baghdad on Sunday while manning a traffic checkpoint, the US military says.

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post #137 of 175 (permalink) Old 02-28-2005, 08:26 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Blood Bath in Iraq Continues

It's a friggin slaughterhouse. Five dead GIs over the weekend, hundreds of Iraqis. We have simply created a nightmare. As long as the Baathists are prohibited from being part of this so-called "democracy" (i.e., democracy only for those political parties that please the neo-con fascists) we will be forever stuck in this blood fest.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #138 of 175 (permalink) Old 02-28-2005, 09:58 AM
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RE: Blood Bath in Iraq Continues

Guys, you know as patriotic americans we should not count these minor and unavoidable deaths too significant when new democracy is being created like our unfoulable gov't here in the good ol' U S of A.

What a sell job. What a load of shit.
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post #139 of 175 (permalink) Old 02-28-2005, 11:43 AM
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RE: Blood Bath in Iraq Continues

Quote:
Shane - 2/28/2005 11:58 AM

...What a sell job. What a load of shit.
Good to have an expert opinion.
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post #140 of 175 (permalink) Old 02-28-2005, 04:38 PM
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RE: Blood Bath in Iraq Continues

here are the experts: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050228/D88HQ2LO0.html



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