Blood Bath in Iraq Continues - Page 12 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #111 of 175 (permalink) Old 02-19-2005, 06:10 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Blood Bath in Iraq Continues

These groups denying each other freedom is the rule, not the exception. Iraq wanting to unite? What kind of Koolaid are you drinking man? The Kurds want out of Iraq, the Sunnis refused to be part of the election, and the Shiites just pick up them marbles. A "united" Iraq is as much a fiction today as it has been for a thousand yesterdays.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #112 of 175 (permalink) Old 02-19-2005, 07:48 PM
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RE: Blood Bath in Iraq Continues

If you ever visit the USA you might notice that most of us came from different countries and we have learned to live with each other. There is nothing special in our genes. I believe the same things we have done can be done by any human beings.

To assume that people are incapable of freedom assumes that they are different genetically. To assume they are genetically incapable of freedom is something that your personal bogeyman, Hitler, would have approved of. You appear to be turning into that which you hate most.
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post #113 of 175 (permalink) Old 02-19-2005, 08:21 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Blood Bath in Iraq Continues

When we arrive here, our tribal links are severed, our old hatreds erased. Not so back in the motherland, else the Irish and the English would be kissing the tip of each other's penises for sport.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #114 of 175 (permalink) Old 02-19-2005, 08:31 PM
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RE: Blood Bath in Iraq Continues

Yes, territoriality does make a world of difference.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #115 of 175 (permalink) Old 02-19-2005, 08:47 PM
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RE: Blood Bath in Iraq Continues

Quote:
kvining - 2/19/2005 8:10 PM

These groups denying each other freedom is the rule, not the exception. Iraq wanting to unite? What kind of Koolaid are you drinking man? The Kurds want out of Iraq, the Sunnis refused to be part of the election, and the Shiites just pick up them marbles. A "united" Iraq is as much a fiction today as it has been for a thousand yesterdays.
Kurds are in line for the presidency right now... i think they can surely live with that... they made a decision to unite themselves (you probably know the history of the two kurdish fractions in Irq) which was highly un-usual in the first place... Shiia can't really do a damn thing without someone else ---> kurds at this time... the shiia are reaching out to the sunnis and aome sunnis are wanting to participate now... they did see what unity can do (see kurd comment above.) i haven't seen any power hogging either...

so, koolaid and marbles i don't need... iraqis over all aren't so XIV century as they may seem...

the attacks have stepped up and as Bot said it's really the only strategy they have left now...US soldiers are more incidental then anything now... it's mainly Al-Zarq. and other Baathists... not necessarily the will of the people, if you will... at this point i really don't see the insurgency winning.. i really don't.. not that it will end any time really soon... the will for freedom seems too high right now... time will tell though...



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post #116 of 175 (permalink) Old 02-19-2005, 10:34 PM
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RE: Blood Bath in Iraq Continues

Quote:
GermanStar - 2/19/2005 10:31 PM

Yes, territoriality does make a world of difference.
An assertion based on, what?

Flesh it out for me here.

Would you say that all people are capable of democracy?

Under what circumstance may democracy occur, is there some set of enumarable characteristics in addition to love of freedom and will to liberty?
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post #117 of 175 (permalink) Old 02-19-2005, 11:17 PM
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RE: Blood Bath in Iraq Continues

Surely you're aware of the correlation of territoriality and increased levels of conspecific aggression. When territorial conspecifics meet in neutral territory, the interaction tends to lack the overt displays of aggression you're likely to encounter in either participant's territory. Modern humans generally have a strong tendency to resist change, especially when territoriality is involved. Immigrants are an obvious exception, since they are actively seeking change. If you want an Iraq analogy of sorts, look toward Yugoslavia rather than the States.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #118 of 175 (permalink) Old 02-19-2005, 11:28 PM
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RE: Blood Bath in Iraq Continues

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GermanStar - 2/20/2005 1:17 AM

Surely you're aware of the correlation of territoriality and increased levels of conspecific aggression. When territorial conspecifics meet in neutral territory, the interaction tends to lack the overt displays of aggression you're likely to encounter in either participant's territory. Modern humans generally have a strong tendency to resist change, especially when territoriality is involved. Immigrants are an obvious exception, since they are actively seeking change. If you want an Iraq analogy of sorts, look toward Yugoslavia rather than the States.


Sure, I've read all that stuff, so what? Mammals don't act like automatons, else deer hunting would be a lot simpler. The theory you site as evidence is extremely equivocal and is a useful model, but not a law. If it were an item worthy of betting on, I sure as heck wouldn't bet much.

And don't call me "Shirley".
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post #119 of 175 (permalink) Old 02-20-2005, 10:02 AM
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RE: Blood Bath in Iraq Continues

Do you think that any three or four disparate cultures can come together to form a genuine community? Do you think that some commonality other than mutual loathing is a requirement for success? I do believe that success would be more likely if this experiment took place in neutral territory.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #120 of 175 (permalink) Old 02-20-2005, 10:41 AM
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RE: Blood Bath in Iraq Continues

Quote:
GermanStar - 2/20/2005 9:02 AM

I do believe that success would be more likely if this experiment took place in neutral territory.
...or at the behest of their own initiative, not via scorched earth "vote or die muthaf@#ker" aggression from a foreign invading army.
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