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post #31 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 07:28 AM
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RE: 'Israel may act first' -- Cheney

You are probably right, but c'mon, Bot could be right this time. We have yet to see what the effect of an arm withdrawal is. Jim
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post #32 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 07:47 AM
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RE: 'Israel may act first' -- Cheney

Isreal should NUKE anyone who threatens them.........

and they should kill any palestinian that so much as picks up a rock or speeks in a threatening manner.
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post #33 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 09:58 AM
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RE: 'Israel may act first' -- Cheney

Quote:
boneheaddoctor - 1/21/2005 4:47 PM

Isreal should NUKE anyone who threatens them.........

and they should kill any palestinian that so much as picks up a rock or speeks in a threatening manner.
I don't think that's very wise.
The Israelis will end up killing themselves if they engage in a nuclear war with their enemies, because their enemies are right next door.

I believe that all the conflicts in the Middle East need a political solution and not a military one. Military force will not prevail at the end; it’s all about political compromise. And neither side is willing to do so. So both sides engage in military confrontation to delay the time when the actual compromises will have to be taken. Both sides are depending on each other to give up sooner than the other. The Israeli’s are using force to make the Palestinians have enough of it and give up their rights, and so are Palestinians. But the problem is that both are so determined to keep their rights and offer no substantial compromise. So this scenario is bound to continue, and more bloodshed will take place.

I also believe that the entire region should be nuclear weapons free. This includes Israel, Pakistan, India, Iran and Syria. If the abandonment of these nuclear programs doesn’t take place in all these countries, it will be seen as unfair by others and they won’t eventually do it.

kvining, I like your thoughts and interpretations a lot, even if I don't agree with all of them. You have a stimulated mind with a lot of knowledge. [;)]

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post #34 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 10:08 AM Thread Starter
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RE: 'Israel may act first' -- Cheney

At various times during this conflict, Israel has absolutely been willing to compromise -- at one point offering Arafat 90% of his demands. Arafat summarily rejected Israel's offer of peace, since his only true goal was the complete elimination of Israel. With Arafat out of the picture, perhaps this destructive mindset will change -- the world is keeping it's collective fingers crossed on that score.

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post #35 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 10:48 AM
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RE: 'Israel may act first' -- Cheney

There is still controversy about what was offered until this day. The Israelis say that it was 90% of the demands, although I sincerely doubt they are willing to give that much. Because this means that Israelis were willing to give up 90% of the land, give up 90% of East Jerusalem, and accept 90% of the refugees back. Do you honestly believe that all that was given and Arafat just refused? I’m sure that it wasn’t.
What was given was a lot less than that. Most of them were only proposals from Clinton to Arafat, without having full approval from Barak. But when Arafat refused, it was so easy for Barak to accept and blame.

I believe that most people make compromises only when the cost of not making such compromises is greater than the cost of keeping the current situation. Till now, it’s clear that this moment hasn’t arrived yet. I hope it does soon to spare the lives of innocent people that are dying daily on both sides. The Israelis think that accepting the Palestinians' demands will threaten their existence. While the Palestinians think that by giving up their demands, they are giving up their rights which will also threaten their existence. So they both resort to violence because they don’t see a solution. Violence is a sign of desperation.

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post #36 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 08:38 PM
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RE: 'Israel may act first' -- Cheney

Isreal is not and should not give the Palestinian horde everything it wants....becasue what have they gotten in return........homicide bombers killing women and children........

THe Palestinians better learn how to give....and I am not talking about trouble.


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post #37 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 09:21 PM
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RE: 'Israel may act first' -- Cheney

Quote:
JimSmith - 1/21/2005 9:28 AM

You are probably right, but c'mon, Bot could be right this time. We have yet to see what the effect of an arm withdrawal is. Jim
Yeah, c'mon Ron, even a (analog) clock is right twice a day.
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post #38 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 09:59 PM Thread Starter
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RE: 'Israel may act first' -- Cheney

Somehow, I doubt we'll ever find out with certainty either way. Personally, I was struck by the raw irony and the backhanded passive/aggressive content of Cheney's little message. Do as we say, not as we do, right? Shakes head in bewilderment....

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post #39 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 10:38 PM
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RE: 'Israel may act first' -- Cheney

Quote:
SILVER ARROW - 1/21/2005 11:58 AM

Quote:
boneheaddoctor - 1/21/2005 4:47 PM

Isreal should NUKE anyone who threatens them.........

and they should kill any palestinian that so much as picks up a rock or speeks in a threatening manner.
I don't think that's very wise.
The Israelis will end up killing themselves if they engage in a nuclear war with their enemies, because their enemies are right next door.

I believe that all the conflicts in the Middle East need a political solution and not a military one. Military force will not prevail at the end; it’s all about political compromise. And neither side is willing to do so. So both sides engage in military confrontation to delay the time when the actual compromises will have to be taken. Both sides are depending on each other to give up sooner than the other. The Israeli’s are using force to make the Palestinians have enough of it and give up their rights, and so are Palestinians. But the problem is that both are so determined to keep their rights and offer no substantial compromise. So this scenario is bound to continue, and more bloodshed will take place.

I also believe that the entire region should be nuclear weapons free. This includes Israel, Pakistan, India, Iran and Syria. If the abandonment of these nuclear programs doesn’t take place in all these countries, it will be seen as unfair by others and they won’t eventually do it.

kvining, I like your thoughts and interpretations a lot, even if I don't agree with all of them. You have a stimulated mind with a lot of knowledge. [;)]
Thank you for the kudos. Since you live in the Middle East, I am curious as to what points you agree or disagree with - Do you see or foresee Pan-Islamic Jihadism as a movement being directed by a unified leadership of Shia and Sunni Fundamentalists? Do you see Baathist Arab Nationalism as a countervailing force ? Is the USA actually doing something positive and different in the eyes of the average Muslim or is this considered the same old colonialism?


Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #40 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 10:45 PM
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RE: 'Israel may act first' -- Cheney

Quote:
GermanStar - 1/21/2005 12:08 PM

At various times during this conflict, Israel has absolutely been willing to compromise -- at one point offering Arafat 90% of his demands. Arafat summarily rejected Israel's offer of peace, since his only true goal was the complete elimination of Israel. With Arafat out of the picture, perhaps this destructive mindset will change -- the world is keeping it's collective fingers crossed on that score.
Israel is a first rate democracy. Both the offer of 90% of the land and the subsequent throwing up of hands in exasperation at the idiocy of Arafat reflected the will of the Israeli people. When Arafat refused the land, without him saying anymore, all the Israelis knew he was choosing war over peace, and they made the correct move and voted out the peace party and put in their biggest bad ass. Things will change when the Israeli people feel safe enough to take a chance. Given the continued militancy of the Palestinians and their latest attacks, things ain't lookin' good for that to happen. My guess is Abbas will be assasinated shortly. The current record for the world's longest war is 100 years, and these guys are going for the record.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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