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post #11 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-20-2005, 10:46 PM
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RE: 'Israel may act first' -- Cheney

Ah, the long arm of the USA. This assumes that Israel, when threatened, gives a $hit what anybody says. Israel is a small country. A nuke in Tel Aviv would be a hammer-blow to them like the eastern seaboard or west coast to the USA. If they think a nuke from Tehran is immenent, they wont give a damn what we think, it'll be hail Mary (okay, myabe not Mary, "Hail Maryam"?) and apologize later. You know, like when it was the USA & Britain against the USSR.

I don't think anybody in the gov thinks Iran is a military targte at this time. Despite building an army for 2 wars in the 1990's, we are probably unable to handle another war without relying on tactical nukes. At this time I just don't see Iran as being that great a threat. And I am sorry to say, I haven't the tea leaves and mindreading necessary to to speak with authority on what this or that nation's leadreship has up its sleeves.

Here's what I think is going on. Iran is trying very hard to get their own little nuke. But they want it for defensive, not offense. They are scared witless that we're setting-up shop on two of it's borders, Iraq and Afghanistan. And that we've drammatically gained influence with their Sunni and nuke neighbor, Pakistan, in which Iran has been fomenting discord through the Shiite minority of Pakistan. They are now frightened that all the chickens the've been sending out are coming home to roost. beset on all sides, they are frantically trying for the nuke option. They will (rightly, IMO) believe that a nuke will offer them maximum deterrence.

The EU, living near the middleast and having large Sunni and Shia minority populations, is eager to avoid inflaming their guest workers and 2nd class citizens. So they've sent the world class appeasers, the French, to cajole the mullahs into making nice with the USA. Playing good cop to our bad cop. Not many places on earth are especially interested in being Iran's friend, so they'll work hard to ingratiate themselves with the EU, trying to take advantage of the French distate for all things Americain.

Israel is playing the USA for Israel's benefit. Using our unwavering support to maintain its own intransigence vis a vis the Palestinians. With their arab corral about 1/3 completed, attacks are dramatically down and the Palestinians are tired of perpetual war and detest Israel's military solution to what they believe is a sociological and political problem. But with the collapse of Iraq and the turn of Saudi Princes from Palestinian terrorism, the Palestinains are just about out of cards to play against Israel--unless they can get Iran to go nuke and blackmail Israel.

Aside from that, I agree with you.
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post #12 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-20-2005, 10:48 PM
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RE: 'Israel may act first' -- Cheney

scary as hell...

kv, link up that reighshtag/911 poster please.. or e mail it to me...



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post #13 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-20-2005, 10:52 PM
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RE: 'Israel may act first' -- Cheney

damn bot, sounds like you've been studying up... [:)]



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post #14 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-20-2005, 11:02 PM
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RE: 'Israel may act first' -- Cheney

...your tea leaves are from Mars, mine are from Venus. Mine clearly left remnants at the bottom of my cup in a distinct outline reading: PNAC...or maybe PANC...or CANP, but it was something like that, I'm sure.
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post #15 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-20-2005, 11:02 PM
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RE: 'Israel may act first' -- Cheney

Quote:
Botnst - 1/21/2005 12:46 AM
.......I don't think anybody in the gov thinks Iran is a military targte at this time. Despite building an army for 2 wars in the 1990's, we are probably unable to handle another war without relying on tactical nukes. At this time I just don't see Iran as being that great a threat. And I am sorry to say, I haven't the tea leaves and mindreading necessary to to speak with authority on what this or that nation's leadreship has up its sleeves.
......
I would suggest Mr. Cheney's comments directly contradict your first sentence from the paragraph I excerpted above. While he was "careful" to frame it as a military target of greater importance to Israel, I think the whole point was to communicate Iran is a military target. If you want to read some kind of innocence into that go ahead. I see no reason to mention this in an interview "innocently" so I presumed it was part of the typical conditioning process for the American people.

The rest of that paragraph I agree with, and find that to be one of the fundamental proofs of how wrong our presence in Iraq today is. It has made us weaker, not stronger. We are now a single attack away from desperation, as leaping to tactical nukes to protect our interests is a sure sign of desperation. Much more so than the "insurgents" in Iraq stepping up their attacks as the election approaches. Jim
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post #16 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-20-2005, 11:13 PM
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RE: 'Israel may act first' -- Cheney

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kvining - 1/21/2005 12:26 AM

One thing the American press doesn't report is that the Iraqi street-slang for the American occupation troops is "The Jews". A nuclear attack by Israel will simply solidify the Muslim world's perception of us as being one and the same as being correct. What Cheney fails to mention is that the entire basketcase Israeli economy is based on US aid. As usual, the Fox-fed American public is totally unaware of that fact and will believe the Israeli attack to be unilateral, something Botnst seems to have already bought. Meanwhile, the rest of the world which actually has a free press, will know the truth: the Israelis don't make a move without our OK. If they attack Iran, it will only be on our say so. My belief is that this will cause friendly Muslim governments to collapse across the planet, most notably Pakistan, which will then trigger a wider nuclear war. My guess is Pakistan is helping Iran nuclearize as fast as possible anyways - they are big allies.
infadel anyway maybe even zionists... you sure Musharaf is friendly with Iran... i am not so sure.... he is anti theocratic man... somewhat friendly maybe but i surely doubt that Pakistan wants another neigbor with a nuke.. one is plenty me thinks...



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post #17 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-20-2005, 11:27 PM
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RE: 'Israel may act first' -- Cheney

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GermanStar - 1/21/2005 4:32 AM

LOL, it looks to me like the guy holding the sign wants to share his score of HOMEGROWN with Dubya
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post #18 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-20-2005, 11:32 PM
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RE: 'Israel may act first' -- Cheney

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kvining - 1/21/2005 5:26 AM
My guess is Pakistan is helping Iran nuclearize as fast as possible anyways - they are big allies.
I'm from Pakistan and I'll have to agree with you on this one. Why? Oh why was there a manhatten project???[:(!][:(!][:(!]
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post #19 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-20-2005, 11:42 PM
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RE: 'Israel may act first' -- Cheney

Iran and Pakistan have been exchanging nuclear and missle technology. I don't know how much friendlier you can get. Pakistan, Iran and North Korea have a de facto alliance, and they work together as a team to share technology so they can all get ICBM capabilities to protect themselves from us. Iran quit interfering in Pakistan internal affairs a long time ago in recognition of its need to enter into this arrangement.

I think Bot way over-estimates Pakistan's friendship with the US -its all for show, the real truth is the average Pakistani and his mullahs hate our guts, and Mussariff of Pakistan is living on borrowed time until that faction, the majority in Pakistan, take over. To survive, he kisses their asses while playing nice with us - end result, no Bin Laden. Bin Laden is becoming the bridge between radical Shiism and Radical Sunnism. In his last TV appearance, he was dressed in the garb of a high Shiite mullah, something the CIA took public note of, increasing speculation that Bin Laden is actually in Iran, not surprising given that Iran was directly implicated in 911. It has always been my suspicion that Iran was the one ultimately behind Al Queda and 911. It's worked out great for them - they got rid of their arch-enemy Saddam and bottled us up in NamRaq, tying us down long enough to finish their little nuke project. Any idiot who could read the PNAC docs would know that is exactly what Bush would do in response to 911, and I think the radical faction that really controls Iran figured this out. Thanks to these transparent PNAC ideologues, we invaded the wrong friggin country.

Meanwhile, Bin Laden is now posturing himself to be just the man to be the catalyst for a joint Shiite/Sunni Islamic Republic in Pakistan. Now the situation is reversed - the American armies in Pakistan and Iraq will be in nuclear missle range of Iran and Pakistan, and immune from invasion.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #20 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-20-2005, 11:51 PM
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RE: 'Israel may act first' -- Cheney

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mzsmbs - 1/21/2005 6:13 AM
infadel anyway maybe even zionists... you sure Musharaf is friendly with Iran... i am not so sure.... he is anti theocratic man... somewhat friendly maybe but i surely doubt that Pakistan wants another neigbor with a nuke.. one is plenty me thinks...
Being a half Brit half pakistani living in both the UK & Pakistan (most of the time), I can assure you that Pakistan is sh*tting its pants with fear and that is the main reason Mushy (Musharaf) is sucking W's balls so hard. If Pakistan was to (and I'm not saying they are not) help Iran I know that the fear of the US pulling the carpet out from under them would be enough for them to think twice before going any further.

Afterall no matter how much I hate saying this, it is the truth,.. the whole world seems to need the US's help now.
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