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post #101 of 139 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 06:58 PM
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RE: Judge's order to remove evolution stickers from textbooks gets cheers from scientists

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GermanStar - 1/21/2005 3:52 PM

"faith", "heresy", "blasphemy" -- it's the language of people who don't want to be more informed. You must have seen The Matrix. Remember Neo's initial reaction to the truth?
I think its the Agnostics and the Atheists fear of what they don't understand..........they are the ones with their bowels in an uproar..........

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post #102 of 139 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 07:02 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Judge's order to remove evolution stickers from textbooks gets cheers from scientists

C'mon now. Heresy and blasphemy are hardly words of exploration -- they're words of "tow the line or else". That is the antithesis of exploration/education.

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post #103 of 139 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 07:04 PM
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RE: Judge's order to remove evolution stickers from textbooks gets cheers from scientists

Its not the Faithful trying to outlaw atheism....

Its the atheists trying to outlaw being faithful.

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post #104 of 139 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 07:17 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Judge's order to remove evolution stickers from textbooks gets cheers from scientists

I'm not trying to outlaw anything, but theology stickers don't belong on science books any more than science stickers belong the bible. Fair enough?

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post #105 of 139 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 07:20 PM
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RE: Judge's order to remove evolution stickers from textbooks gets cheers from scientists

I think imposing the Atheist viewpoints on life upon everyone is patently wrong.

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post #106 of 139 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 09:38 PM
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RE: Judge's order to remove evolution stickers from textbooks gets cheers from scientists

Jim,
we can disagree.
I would go further, and say that the biblical world view is what permitted the rise of the scientific method. A biblical world view expects to find order throughout creation because it is a reflection of the Creator. Other world views tto superstition or worse to explain how/ why things happen. I do not think it a mere coincidence that the rise of scientific enquiry finds its historical beginnings along with the protestant reformation.
I will return to some problems I see in evolution in a day or two. As this is not my normal line of enquiry, I need to brush up on some evidence. I don't expect to win any converts but to show that there are real problems that are not solved, but are accepted on mere faith. to be continued....
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post #107 of 139 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 11:25 PM
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RE: Judge's order to remove evolution stickers from textbooks gets cheers from scientists

Quote:
MS Fowler - 1/21/2005 11:38 PM

Jim,
we can disagree.
I would go further, and say that the biblical world view is what permitted the rise of the scientific method. A biblical world view expects to find order throughout creation because it is a reflection of the Creator. Other world views tto superstition or worse to explain how/ why things happen. I do not think it a mere coincidence that the rise of scientific enquiry finds its historical beginnings along with the protestant reformation.
I will return to some problems I see in evolution in a day or two. As this is not my normal line of enquiry, I need to brush up on some evidence. I don't expect to win any converts but to show that there are real problems that are not solved, but are accepted on mere faith. to be continued....
I would have to defer to Kerry for a more educated response to your first assertion, but I would say the point Christianity was responsible for the rise of science is pretty debatable. Most would consider Aristotle, Pyhtogaras and Plato the fathers of modern science, and Christianity certainly interrupted the various academia that derived from these men. If I remember right, it was the Arabs who preserved their learning, which surfaced in Christiandom during the 1500's, becoming the seeds of the Renaissance. One could say it was the decline of Christianity as the Modern State rose that actually was the impetus for the rise of the science we know today.

I wait with a quiver full of intellectual arrows for your assertions on evolution.

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post #108 of 139 (permalink) Old 01-22-2005, 12:08 AM
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RE: Judge's order to remove evolution stickers from textbooks gets cheers from scientists

Me too. Jim
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post #109 of 139 (permalink) Old 01-22-2005, 04:09 AM
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RE: Judge's order to remove evolution stickers from textbooks gets cheers from scientists

I keep forgetting, that for the most part, people tend to identify christianity as the Roman version.
What I said was that the rise of scientific investigation happened at the same time as the protestant reformation which coincides with the lessening of the grip of the Roman church.
As far as the beginnings of science being found in the ancient Greeks, well, duh! Of course, but there was a considerable hieatus, say for a little over a thousand years, commonly known as the dark ages--which period of time coincides roughly with Constantine and the rise of the Roman church.
Its nice to know that you are "quivering" with anticipation ( sorry for the pun, but I couldn't resist)
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post #110 of 139 (permalink) Old 01-22-2005, 09:36 AM
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RE: Judge's order to remove evolution stickers from textbooks gets cheers from scientists

Science seems to require a presumption of a rational order to the universe knowable mathematically. This can be found in lots of thinkers like Pythagoras, Plato and the Stoics. Christianity adapted some of these ideas. On the other hand, Christianity also traditionally has accepted miracles would can't be understood scientifically. So I think Christianit did continue a part of Greek science.
It's an interesting historical question as to why Islam went into decline and Christian societies took the lead in modern science. There's been at least one good book written on it. One hypothesis is that Islam failed to develop the idea of a corporation as a person allowing for the legal independence of universities from the Church.
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