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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-19-2004, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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EU officials implore new immigrants to learn 'European values'...

Talk about irony...

Librals want the US to more embrace EU values, etc. They promote Spanish as a second language here in the US where English is the main language, for example.

Now which side of the fence are they going to be on in this case...

EU officials implore new immigrants to learn 'European values'
- CONSTANT BRAND, Associated Press Writer
Friday, November 19, 2004

(11-19) 10:46 PST BRUSSELS, Belgium (AP) --

European Union justice and interior ministers agreed Friday that new immigrants to the 25-nation bloc should be required to learn local languages, and to adhere to general "European values" that will guide them toward better integration.

Dutch immigration minister Rita Verdonk, who chaired the meeting, said all countries agreed to make integrating newcomers a priority, considering the growing ethnic tensions as EU nations struggle to absorb a steady stream of poor, mostly Muslim immigrants.

Just this month in the Netherlands, the slaying of filmmaker Theo van Gogh by a suspected Muslim radical unleashed a wave of attacks against mosques, churches and religious schools in a country once famed for its tolerance.

Tensions also rose in Belgium, where authorities arrested a suspect Friday accused of sending death threats to a senator of Moroccan heritage who criticized radical Muslims.

"It's not like we are against immigration," Verdonk said. "If you want to live in the Netherlands, you have to adhere to our rules ... and learn our language."

Highlighting a European-wide problem, Verdonk said that some 500,000 Turkish and Moroccan immigrants in the Netherlands don't speak Dutch.

For now, integration policies across the continent vary greatly. Public concerns over immigration have fueled electoral successes for far-right parties in several European countries, including Austria and Italy, where they have joined the national government.

Many Muslims have bristled at new rules targeting immigrants that they say amount to racial profiling that is insensitive of their religion.

Yet incoming EU justice and home affairs commissioner Franco Frattini told reporters in Rome that integration had to be an essential part of an EU policy.

"We can't imagine an immigration policy that focuses only on the prevention of illegal immigration, without considering the integration of those who want to enter a European country to live and work there in full respect of the law of both the country and Europe," Frattini said.

The EU ministers also set out a list of 11 nonbinding guidelines for governments and immigrant communities, including accepting basic European values, providing employment and education, knowledge of the local language, culture and history, and open access to local health care and other public services.

URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...346EST0547.DTL

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-19-2004, 05:44 PM
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RE: EU officials implore new immigrants to learn 'European values'...

Most people with a brain know the desire for promoting learning Spanish in this country has nothing to do with Spain. You must have missed this in school - If you get a map, look just under Texas, and there is a country called "Mexico". Also, this is the first time I've ever heard anyone assert someone in the US is urging we adopt "EU values". Your post is simply silly.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-19-2004, 06:05 PM
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RE: EU officials implore new immigrants to learn 'European values'...

I think his point was lost on you, Kirk.

The EU is asking immigrants to become European while we become Mexican to keep-up with immigrants.

Its overstated, but an interesting insight worth discussing head-on.

I think the general thesis is that we (our culture in America) spend a lot of time affirming the value of minority cultures and decry the 'melting pot' philosophy of history. We no longer want to create a single uniquely American entity but instead, a sort of Balkanized confederation of interests.

In contrast, Europe suddenly discovers the value of the melting pot.

Which is it?
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-19-2004, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
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RE: EU officials implore new immigrants to learn 'European values'...

Quote:
Botnst - 11/19/2004 7:05 PM

I think his point was lost on you, Kirk.

The EU is asking immigrants to become European while we become Mexican to keep-up with immigrants.

Its overstated, but an interesting insight worth discussing head-on.

I think the general thesis is that we (our culture in America) spend a lot of time affirming the value of minority cultures and decry the 'melting pot' philosophy of history. We no longer want to create a single uniquely American entity but instead, a sort of Balkanized confederation of interests.

In contrast, Europe suddenly discovers the value of the melting pot.

Which is it?
Thank you very much, Bot! You explained my point better than I could.
I'm self-censoring my comments to KV. I just have to realize that some people just will never get it. He just wants it both ways.
My point is that if an American travels abroad (which I have), most countries consider it an insult if you don't try to conform or at least respect their culture (think Japan - I have personal experience with this). Yet we are expected to overlook the opposite here.
Now don't get me wrong - I am just as tolerate as the next individual. I do have difficulty with 'Mexican' people (speaking their version of Spanish) who do not know or have a limited vocabulary of English. It's somewhat insulting to me that they come to this Country and enjoy the benifits of it and don't respect us enough to learn our language.
And before someone trys to twist this into a racial thing against Mexicans, which it is not, my ex and my Sister-In-Law are Mexican - and they feel the same way...

But that's just my opinion...

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-19-2004, 07:39 PM
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RE: EU officials implore new immigrants to learn 'European values'...

Quote:
Botnst - 11/19/2004 8:05 PM

I think his point was lost on you, Kirk.

The EU is asking immigrants to become European while we become Mexican to keep-up with immigrants.

Its overstated, but an interesting insight worth discussing head-on.

I think the general thesis is that we (our culture in America) spend a lot of time affirming the value of minority cultures and decry the 'melting pot' philosophy of history. We no longer want to create a single uniquely American entity but instead, a sort of Balkanized confederation of interests.

In contrast, Europe suddenly discovers the value of the melting pot.

Which is it?
Europe is not really a melting pot, yet. In the case cited, the problem is not learning the EU language, it is learning Dutch. In Germany it is German, in Italy it is Italian, and so on.

I am not in favor of catering to another language being spoken besides English here. My relatives arrived from Croatia and had to learn English. I think it was good for them and good for America. It is a load of BS to suggest there is something good about having people who are supposed to work together speaking different languages, or all this energy spent on tip toeing around people's heritage when they are American. WE are MUTTS. Who really cares about the lineage of a mutt? Let it go and be an American.

That does not mean we should not be learning second and third languages. The rest of the world is spending a lot of time studying us by learning our language. They know us better than we know them, and I fail to see why that is good for us.

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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-20-2004, 11:19 AM
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RE: EU officials implore new immigrants to learn 'European values'...

Well, I think the U.S. has been manipulated into a ridiculous form of political correctness. Its gotten to the point where we cater to every nuance of every person. Lets not hurt anyone's feelings. Screw that!

My grandmother spoke no English when she came to this country. She told me that the one thing she was proudest of, was learning English, understanding the ways of the U.S., an assimilating into society. The fucking Mexicans, Poles, Russians, etc. that are overrunning our country, see no such pride. For the most part, they are aggressive little bastards who offer our country nothing but grief. The mentality of the people immigrating to this country is nothing like the mindset of earlier generations.

Now before all you whiners start calling me a bigot or whatever, I must say that behavior is not an indictment of all immigrants. I know of so many new immigrants that are working so hard to be a part of our society.

Let me tellyou, my many friends in Western Germany, absolutely hate that the Berlin Wall is gone. The absolute animals from Eastern Europe are regarded with the same warmth that one would have from the plague.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-20-2004, 12:48 PM
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RE: EU officials implore new immigrants to learn 'European values'...

To make a point, my friend learned "spanish from both of his mexican born parents". Long confusing story short, when he talked to one of our schools soccer players FROM spain....he had NO idea what he was saying. So if you learn spanish in America your better off visiting Mexico or some place in south America. NOT spain. The language was butchered when he headed over to the states/mexico.

Im planning on going to Germany next summer so...good thing for me I can allready speak German/English....and im in the process of learning Danish.....its very....very....hard
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-20-2004, 01:28 PM
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RE: EU officials implore new immigrants to learn 'European values'...

Quote:
Librals want the US to more embrace EU values, etc. They promote Spanish as a second language here in the US where English is the main language, for example.
What European values do we want the US to embrace? It seems like our president is doing everything he can to secure the mexican vote not the liberals. As a side note, having two languages is not uncommon, for example in Japan, almost everything is both Japanese and English (I lived there for a few months), in Canada it's french lol and English, so because we have all these illegal mexicans its come to a point where the conservatives are now trying to please them....

Edit: I don't care if everything is in both english and spanish.

Edit again: Also in Japan, Mexicans are favored over Americans, a mexican can get a 6 month visitors visa no questions asked, Americans are only allowed 3 months.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-20-2004, 08:30 PM
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RE: EU officials implore new immigrants to learn 'European values'...

Quote:
MRTIKKET - 11/20/2004 10:19 AM

Well, I think the U.S. has been manipulated into a ridiculous form of political correctness. Its gotten to the point where we cater to every nuance of every person. Lets not hurt anyone's feelings. Screw that!

My grandmother spoke no English when she came to this country. She told me that the one thing she was proudest of, was learning English, understanding the ways of the U.S., an assimilating into society. The fucking Mexicans, Poles, Russians, etc. that are overrunning our country, see no such pride. For the most part, they are aggressive little bastards who offer our country nothing but grief. The mentality of the people immigrating to this country is nothing like the mindset of earlier generations.

Now before all you whiners start calling me a bigot or whatever, I must say that behavior is not an indictment of all immigrants. I know of so many new immigrants that are working so hard to be a part of our society.

Let me tellyou, my many friends in Western Germany, absolutely hate that the Berlin Wall is gone. The absolute animals from Eastern Europe are regarded with the same warmth that one would have from the plague.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-20-2004, 09:08 PM
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RE: EU officials implore new immigrants to learn 'European values'...

Such a non issue. The children of immigrants learn the language and assimilate. It takes one generation, always has always will.

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