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post #31 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-14-2004, 02:43 PM
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RE: "Hydrogen Economy"

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old300D - 11/14/2004 3:46 PM

Keeping on topic, how is the "free market" and libertarianism working for biodiesel and alternative fuels? It should be obvious to most people with a pulse the policies of the US are not sustainable envronmentally of financially. The goverment's support of big oil with the military, and supressing any real funding for research and support of alternative energy is short sighted.

This is the shortcoming of mixing corporate power with government policy. We don't live in Ayn Rand's fantasy world of heroic free enterprise capitalists. Any real change is going to come from the grassroots and the common person; I think the government's role is to support research and development of these sources, to cut the influence of big oil; the role is not to trumpet propaganda about unattaintable solutions designed to keep big oil rolling in cash and distract the public from the real issues.
The way capitalism works is that you get to work your a$$ off to make a product that other people buy of their own free will. Want biodiesel to work? Now's your chance to make big bucks. Reread the first sentence.


How has the gov suppressed research? This should be a full-blown scandal.

I agree its short-sighted to have gov fund research through 'mixed economy'. Lets work together to get the gov the heck out of business and research and put it back where it belongs: defense, regulation of trade, and law enforcement.
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post #32 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-14-2004, 08:55 PM Thread Starter
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RE: "Hydrogen Economy"

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Botnst - 11/14/2004 2:43 PM
The way capitalism works is that you get to work your a$$ off to make a product that other people buy of their own free will. Want biodiesel to work? Now's your chance to make big bucks. Reread the first sentence.


How has the gov suppressed research? This should be a full-blown scandal.

I agree its short-sighted to have gov fund research through 'mixed economy'. Lets work together to get the gov the heck out of business and research and put it back where it belongs: defense, regulation of trade, and law enforcement.
I'm glad we agree. Biodiesel will not become competitive in the market unless the government stops subsidizing oil. This obviously isn't going to happen overnight, if ever. The option is to have the government fund incentives for individuals and businesses to develop this resource-- this can work.

Maybe I mis-spoke about "suppression" of research. What I meant was suppression by omission. Funding for alternative fuels has been sustantially cut under the Bush administration, despite the lip service Bush paid during the debate. I can't imagine any motive for the government to subsidize big oil, except to complete the circle of corruption.

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post #33 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-15-2004, 09:29 AM
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RE: "Hydrogen Economy"

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old300D - 11/14/2004 10:55 PM
I can't imagine any motive for the government to subsidize big oil, except to complete the circle of corruption.
Imagine the damage it would to to our economy if they suddenly stopped, and tomorrow gas was $6 a gallon. There is your motive.

Mike

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post #34 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-15-2004, 10:05 PM Thread Starter
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RE: "Hydrogen Economy"

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mikemover-the sequel - 11/15/2004 9:29 AM

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old300D - 11/14/2004 10:55 PM
I can't imagine any motive for the government to subsidize big oil, except to complete the circle of corruption.
Imagine the damage it would to to our economy if they suddenly stopped, and tomorrow gas was $6 a gallon. There is your motive.

Mike
It will happen anyway. Look at how much the war is costing. Pay at the pump or pay the taxes, or pay by losng your job in a poor economy. The ironic thing is we could create a whole new economy domestically by growing and processing biodisel. It would create lots of good paying jobs here, and reduce our need to go kill foreigners.

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post #35 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-15-2004, 10:45 PM
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RE: "Hydrogen Economy"

If we kill folks in their own country, are they still foreigners?
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post #36 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-16-2004, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
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RE: "Hydrogen Economy"

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Botnst - 11/15/2004 10:45 PM

If we kill folks in their own country, are they still foreigners?
Apparently so. Now that Fallujah is now in US control (more or less)it turns out most of the 1000 prisoners are Iraqi, despite the assertion before the assault that it was a haven for "foreign fighters".

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post #37 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-16-2004, 10:24 AM
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RE: "Hydrogen Economy"

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old300D - 11/16/2004 12:05 AM

It will happen anyway. Look at how much the war is costing. Pay at the pump or pay the taxes, or pay by losng your job in a poor economy. The ironic thing is we could create a whole new economy domestically by growing and processing biodisel. It would create lots of good paying jobs here, and reduce our need to go kill foreigners.
What you say about biodiesel is very true.....But unfortunately, it is hardly that simple, and will be an up-hill battle.

Regardless, I will not be losing my "jobs".

Lastly: There are several reasons to "go kill foreigners", and they have nothing to do with oil.

Mike

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post #38 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-16-2004, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
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RE: "Hydrogen Economy"

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mikemover-the sequel - 11/16/2004 10:24 AM
There are several reasons to "go kill foreigners", and they have nothing to do with oil.
Maybe according to you. Given the constantly shifting justifications for the current war, there remains only one constant unstated reason. OIL.


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