Fear wins. The world loses. - Page 7 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #61 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 08:05 PM
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RE: Fear wins. The world loses.

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Botnst - 11/3/2004 9:40 PM

Its one of those things that happens in a free society.

In other words, I think its great that religious folks get on TV. We need more, not less ideas in the marketplace.
I never suggested that limiting communication or speech was a good thing. I'm arguing that fundamentalists are hugely more effective with their propaganda on TV than leftists.
I do think their ideas are very dangerous in exactly the same way that you think Islamofascist ideas are dangerous. These harmless sects want to mess with your sex. They also want to substitute Biblical myths for biology in the public school classroom, or at least put these myths on an equal with science based on free, open critical inquiry unconnected with religious scriptures. They want women to submit to men and they want gay sex declared illegal. This is clear in the passage of the marriage amendments in a number of states yesterday. They don't want your libertarian ideas to carry the day in the social sphere. Your capitalist libertarian ideas are being overwhelmed in the Republican party and substituted with these fundamentalist ones.

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post #62 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 08:12 PM
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RE: Fear wins. The world loses.

[QUOTE]moparmike - 11/3/2004 7:20 PM

Quote:
GermanStar - 11/3/2004 6:06 PM

Quote:
moparmike - 11/3/2004 5:01 PM

It is not fascism to want other countries to stay out of our business. It is not fascism to want organizations with no authority in our borders to stay out of our affairs.
Don't you think this should work both ways?
Yes, I do. I think that the US should get out of the UN, and just flip the EU the bird when it says something about us. I couldn't care less what Germany or France thinks. What boggles my mind is the ingratitude of those countries. You would think that a country that can save their ass (or kick their ass, as the case may be) twice in 25 years can handle their own affairs, that is, unless you are European.

Their opinion is their own, and has no place in the US's day-to-day operations. You dont see us meddling in their affairs, do you? You dont see us raising hell when Chirac is up for re-election, do you? No, of course you dont. Because he is irrelevant, just like France.
[quote]


This guy kills me. I think you missed GermanStar's point Skynyrd (or moparmike). You say that the rest of the world can kiss our ass, and to stay out of our business, but I think he was pointing out that shouldn't that mean we stay out of Iraq, Iran, N. Korea, China, Sudan, Syria, Cuba, etc, etc, etc, business? You don't want other nations giving us input on how to run our county, yet you anoint Bush as Caesar?

Ridiculous....
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post #63 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 08:16 PM
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RE: Fear wins. The world loses.

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Cap n Carageous - 11/3/2004 9:57 PM
At least they ain't discussing how many explosives that they can strap on and still get on a bus undetected.
At least some of them are discussing whether it is moral to kill doctors who perform abortions. Their answer has been yes.

They're also discussing how they can stop morning after pills from being available to women.

The consequences of their application of religion to society may not be as brutal as a Muslim suicide bomber, but the logic of their reasoning is virtually identical.
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post #64 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 08:16 PM
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RE: Fear wins. The world loses.

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kerry edwards - 11/3/2004 10:05 PM

Quote:
Botnst - 11/3/2004 9:40 PM

Its one of those things that happens in a free society.

In other words, I think its great that religious folks get on TV. We need more, not less ideas in the marketplace.
I never suggested that limiting communication or speech was a good thing. I'm arguing that fundamentalists are hugely more effective with their propaganda on TV than leftists. ...
Golly, that's interesting.

I see all of entertainment television as advancing a certain view on relationships that evangelicals would call complete propaganda. So they would go on to argue that of the hundreds of channels avaiable nationwide, their particular sect has only XX stations. They'd also say that other sect, not alligned with their sect, is a bunch of heretics that should burn in hell.

In other words, just was we may look at commercial and public TV as being a vast conduit of divergent ideas, evangelicals see it as a vast cesspool with unpleasnt things liable to float-up anywhere--and its still a cesspool under the best of circumstances.

Now for propaganda to be effective, it must be convincing. To be convincing, it has to be consistent amd reasonable. I don't think that describes either Jimmy Swaggart or Paris Hilton.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this. Perhaps to advance the idea that critical comparison of the various TV sources would require a careful exam of whatever we would consider societies' norms.

Or we can ask Z, who doesn't have on of the damned blue-eyed mosnters in his house. Lets put him in front of a TV and record his mumblings, muttering, teeth grinding and loud exhales as we force him to watch 2 hrs of Fox News.
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post #65 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 08:22 PM
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RE: Fear wins. The world loses.

[QUOTE]Botnst - 11/3/2004 10:16 PM
Now for propaganda to be effective, it must be convincing. To be convincing, it has to be consistent amd reasonable. I don't think that describes either Jimmy Swaggart or Paris Hilton.
QUOTE]

If there's anything this election cycle proves, it's that propaganda does not have to be reasonable. Consistency is entirely adequate. Consistent lies (Iraq was involved in 9/11)are equally or more effective than the truth.
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post #66 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 08:24 PM
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RE: Fear wins. The world loses.

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Indy Joe - 11/3/2004 9:12 PM

This guy kills me. I think you missed GermanStar's point Skynyrd (or moparmike). You say that the rest of the world can kiss our ass, and to stay out of our business, but I think he was pointing out that shouldn't that mean we stay out of Iraq, Iran, N. Korea, China, Sudan, Syria, Cuba, etc, etc, etc, business? You don't want other nations giving us input on how to run our county, yet you anoint Bush as Caesar?

Ridiculous....
I have done no such thing. Bush was not my candidate of choice. And who is this Skynard fellow? Lynard Skynard died in a plane crash...


And I agree with the Iraq war, because we are not interfereing with Iraq, we are DEFEATING our enemy which is in Iraq, which in case you missed it, is a proven supporter of anti-American terrorist activities. I dont know about you, but I would much rather fight them there than here. I like my mini-malls, Wally-Worlds, and high schools terrorist-free, thank you very much.

And as far as those other countries go, I dont know what we are doing there. And we arent in Cuba in any place we dont own (Gitmo). All we are doing to Cuba is not doing business with them, and that's our right. North Korea is a country that we are pursuing diplomatic measures with, unless I mistook that flight of C-5 Galaxy cargo planes for our regular flight of geese...


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post #67 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 08:26 PM
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RE: Fear wins. The world loses.

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kerry edwards - 11/3/2004 10:16 PM

Quote:
Cap n Carageous - 11/3/2004 9:57 PM
At least they ain't discussing how many explosives that they can strap on and still get on a bus undetected.
At least some of them are discussing whether it is moral to kill doctors who perform abortions. Their answer has been yes.

They're also discussing how they can stop morning after pills from being available to women.

The consequences of their application of religion to society may not be as brutal as a Muslim suicide bomber, but the logic of their reasoning is virtually identical.

That's like saying molecules cause cancer. We were talking about Southern Babtists that like to watch evangelical tv shows. I have lived in a Southern Babtist envirionment for nearly 53 years and have NEVER known or heard of a true Christian doing physical harm to another person.

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post #68 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 08:27 PM
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RE: Fear wins. The world loses.

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Or we can ask Z, who doesn't have on of the damned blue-eyed mosnters in his house. Lets put him in front of a TV and record his mumblings, muttering, teeth grinding and loud exhales as we force him to watch 2 hrs of Fox News.
...might sound a bit like a Parisian French dialect.
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post #69 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 08:36 PM
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RE: Fear wins. The world loses.

Quote:
Cap n Carageous - 11/3/2004 10:26 PM
have NEVER known or heard of a true Christian doing physical harm to another person.
Now there's a creative solution to the problem. Call anyone who engages in violence, not a 'true' X. Now where have I heard that before??

Just a reminder that on January 8th, 1697, in JJL's great country, Thomas Aikenhead was executed by devout Presbyterian Christians for stating that the world was eternal and God was the world.
This puts the murder of Dr. Slepian in Buffalo NY by James Kopp, a devout Christian in 1998 in a distinguished history of religious murders.
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post #70 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 08:46 PM
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RE: Fear wins. The world loses.

Quote:
moparmike - 11/3/2004 8:24 PM

And I agree with the Iraq war, because we are not interfereing with Iraq, we are DEFEATING our enemy which is in Iraq, which in case you missed it, is a proven supporter of anti-American terrorist activities. I dont know about you, but I would much rather fight them there than here. I like my mini-malls, Wally-Worlds, and high schools terrorist-free, thank you very much.
Iraqi terrorists in mini-malls? I guess I wasn't paying attention. Please define "interfering" in a way that doesn't apply to the U.S. and Iraq. We have no more right to impose a way of life on those people that they have of imposing a way of life on us (perhaps I'm more libertarian than you -- lol) -- at least until they actually threaten us or cause us serious harm. They did neither. Saddam was a shithead -- so what? There's shitheads everywhere. Surely we were big and bad enough to take him out without hijacking a country. I know I'm not going to change your mind and you're not about to change mine, but I feel (my opinion, which I'm entitled to) that this invasion of Iraq was the single most dishonorable action that the U.S. has taken in my lifetime, and is the only thing that any POTUS has done that really got me riled.

I know you support Iraq -- lots do -- you couldn't have possibly voted for Bush had you shared my opinion, which, like myself, you are absolutely entitled to. Who's right and who's wrong? It doesn't matter any more. The election is over, and we have to clean up that shithole we created, no matter how long it takes. That would be true no matter who won. In the meantime, life goes on, and I'm sure we'll find common ground elsewhere.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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