Speaking of race and politics.... - Page 4 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #31 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-30-2004, 12:05 PM
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RE: Speaking of race and politics....

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jamminjames - 10/29/2004 11:57 PM

She's hot!
[8D][:D][:)][:0]
Yes, I agree![:)]
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post #32 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-30-2004, 06:51 PM
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RE: Speaking of race and politics....

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JimSmith - 10/30/2004 10:26 AM

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Botnst - 10/30/2004 9:14 AM

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kvining - 10/30/2004 12:23 AM

The big rumor is she is gay.
Rumors. What do we call people who spread rumors?

Why is it that Democrats are so interested in Republican's sex-lives?
The fascination with Bill Clinton's blow job remains unprecedented. The ire and indignation it raised within the Republican ranks is one of the features of this pattern that suggests Republicans don't really reproduce, by themselves. Maybe forcing a woman of their clan to be artificially inseminated now and then, but actually enjoying copulation with a member of the opposite sex? Could be behind the pro-life bit. Kind of Stepford Wives deal without real planning.

Anyway, the Republican obsession over Clinton's blowjobs far outweighs the vague interest in the sex lives of Republicans by anyone from any other political pursuasion, probably even the Republicans while doing whatever it is they do. Jim
How convenient you left out the main point about Klinton. The main issue is not that he got a BJ, the bigger deeper issue is that he looked America in the eye and lied about it. Period.

Now before you-know-who goes off about Bush "lieing"; he didn't lie - he made decisions based on the information he had at the time, which later proved to be different...
You-know-who - you are so predictable in what your responses will be I thought I would beat you to the punch...[:D]

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post #33 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-30-2004, 06:59 PM
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RE: Speaking of race and politics....

Quote:
jamminjames - 10/30/2004 5:51 PM

Now before you-know-who goes off about Bush "lieing"; he didn't lie - he made decisions based on the information he had at the time, which later proved to be different...
That is entirely untrue. Bush was predisposed to invade Iraq and sought evidence to support that stance. That's very different than making a legitimate attempt to gather unbiased information.

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post #34 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-30-2004, 08:29 PM
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RE: Speaking of race and politics....

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jamminjames - 10/30/2004 8:51 PM
...How convenient you left out the main point about Klinton. The main issue is not that he got a BJ, the bigger deeper issue is that he looked America in the eye and lied about it. Period.

Now before you-know-who goes off about Bush "lieing"; he didn't lie - he made decisions based on the information he had at the time, which later proved to be different...
You-know-who - you are so predictable in what your responses will be I thought I would beat you to the punch...[:D]
jamminjames,

Clinton's lies hurt no one but himself and his family. And, while it is a shame he lied, at the time he was being investigated for having not lost his investment in Whitewater (a whopping $45,000 or so) when the land deal went bankrupt, not for getting a blow job in the White House. The judge hearing the testimony agreed it was not pertinent to the case, and Clinton apparently figured he could spare his wife and daughter the public humiliation that followed.

For those of us convinced Bush is lying, by the way, it is far more objectionable to hear him voluntarily spew whoppers at the American people, looking them right in the eye, that results in the death of their kids, or fathers or mothers or sisters or brothers. I don't know about you, but I suspect if I were asked by a prosecutor, while giving testimony in an investigation of passing bad checks, some very personal and embarassing questions about what I might have been doing with my penis, I just might try to ignore the question, or lie.

The questions Clinton lied about had nothing to do with the Whitewater investigation. The judge agreed. Clinton's lies were intended to protect his family and they had no bearing on any affairs of State, or any other Americans who were not involved. The subjects Bush is lying about are causing Americans to lose their lives. I see the scope of the error in judgement to be much more severe for Bush since his lies affect all of America in a very obviously detrimental way. Bush's lies are intended to benefit Bush at the expense of America. Big difference in my mind.

But, if you are convinced the President is so stupid to have made all these gross errors of judgement innocently, well, I guess Clinton lied and Bush should just have a job where he can't hurt people anymore. Jim
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post #35 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-30-2004, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Speaking of race and politics....

Bush is assumed to have lied by some few people, though the plurality of the electorate remain in support of him. There is a tremendous difference between an assumption and a proven fact.

Clinton was proven in court to have lied. Some few people still excuse his lying ways. Sure, Clinton's lies were small, until he lied to a Grand Jury. Its no longer about sex when you're in the box. Don't lie to a Grand Jury. Judges frown on it. Even if its a president who lies about a BJ. Its not up to the witness to decide when a lie is okay.

If a man can't be trusted to tell the truth concerning embarrassing but inconsequential things, why should anybody believe he'd be truthful about things that matter?
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post #36 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-30-2004, 10:04 PM
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RE: Speaking of race and politics....

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Botnst - 10/30/2004 8:45 PM

If a man can't be trusted to tell the truth concerning embarrassing but inconsequential things, why should anybody believe he'd be truthful about things that matter?
For one thing, they really shouldn't be held to the same standard. Clinton was a proven liar before he was ever elected president. Thus, one could say that the American people knowingly placed a liar (and womanizer) in the White House. Why would anyone then expect him to behave differently? On the other hand, GW was portrayed as a man of God and morality, and can probably count Clinton's indiscretions among the reasons he was elected in the first place. I'm sure each man was being true to his nature -- it's just that Clinton's nature was public knowledge before he was elected. The same cannot be said of GW.

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post #37 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-30-2004, 10:14 PM
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RE: Speaking of race and politics....

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Botnst - 10/30/2004 11:45 PM
...Clinton was proven in court to have lied. Some few people still excuse his lying ways. Sure, Clinton's lies were small, until he lied to a Grand Jury. Its no longer about sex when you're in the box. Don't lie to a Grand Jury. Judges frown on it. Even if its a president who lies about a BJ. Its not up to the witness to decide when a lie is okay.

If a man can't be trusted to tell the truth concerning embarrassing but inconsequential things, why should anybody believe he'd be truthful about things that matter?
It is up to each of us to make such judgements as to whether or not a question allowed in a Grand Jury investigation that was later deemed to have had no bearing on the subject at hand, that was asked for purely vindictive political reasons and had no effect on any Americans other than Clinton and his family, was asked in the environment you attribute to the Grand Jury. It was more like the Grand Kangaroo Court, costing the taxpayers $10 million or more, to put the President on the stand to publicly try to humiliate him. There was no higher purpose being served for the American people by this squandering of $10 million.

Now, Clinton should have just told the truth. But he didn't and he was dragged through more mud for being a bonehead about that, too. But, all in all, what was done in the name of the Whitewater Investigation was actually so threatening to politicians the special status granted Mr. Starr has been eliminated. The power he wielded so recklessly was universally deemed to have been abused and there can now be no more Ken Starrs.

Yeah, Clinton lied to a Grand Jury. I wish he hadn't but I also wish the Whitewater investigation had been concluded to be the fraud it turned out to be before they spent any of the $10 million. But politics ate the scales of justice, and it wasn't until they had to pass out the politicians asses that it was determined Ken Starr could never be again. Our Justice System momentarily reverted to the Salem Witch Trials. No one today views lying to that exercise of justice to be much of a crime. I think in the long term history will view Clinton's blow job and the Whitewater Investigation, and Ken Starr, in the same light. Jim
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post #38 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-30-2004, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Speaking of race and politics....

Lie to a Grand Jury. Face the judge.

I don't give a damn that he lied to his wife or me about the BJ, heck--I'd probably have done the same. Looks like I'll never know....It was the lie to the grand jury that got him disbarred, not the lie to the camera about the BJ.

If we allow folks to lie to the Grand Jury at their convenience, we destroy Grand Juries. Don't want to lie to a Grand Jury? Tell the truth. Its easy.
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post #39 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-30-2004, 10:29 PM
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RE: Speaking of race and politics....

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Botnst - 10/31/2004 12:21 AM

Lie to a Grand Jury. Face the judge.

I don't give a damn that he lied to his wife or me about the BJ, heck--I'd probably have done the same. Looks like I'll never know....It was the lie to the grand jury that got him disbarred, not the lie to the camera about the BJ.

If we allow folks to lie to the Grand Jury at their convenience, we destroy Grand Juries. Don't want to lie to a Grand Jury? Tell the truth. Its easy.
I'll buy that it is easier. But don't contaminate the Grand Jury with political invective and purpose. The Grand Jury was convened to find the truth about a lot of stuff, and Clinton's blowjob was not one. But, you are correct that it is always easier to tell the truth. I think Jimmy Carter might have been the only politician I know of who came close. And look at how much you all admire him as a politician, and President, especially.

You have to keep the whole picture in view. Otherwise you distort reality. Jim
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post #40 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-31-2004, 07:16 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Speaking of race and politics....

One side says one thing about the purpose, the other says another. Whatever.

He didn't lie for some higher purpose or great conviction.

Don't lie to a grand jury.
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