Oh, the tangled web we weave... - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-29-2004, 04:40 AM Thread Starter
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Oh, the tangled web we weave...

Here’s an interesting thought:

We all know that Bush is pretty much pro-life and Kerry is pretty much pro-choice – even though that goes against Kerry's Catholic upbringing.

As far as I can tell, Bush would like to get the laws to lean more to the pro-life side, but he respects the Constitution in this regard.

Now, see if you can follow me on this one.

Sen. Kerry has a litmus test for Supreme Court justices. In the St. Louis debate, he said he would not nominate any judge who would imperil a constitutional right. And Kerry believes abortion is such a right. Should he win, Roe v. Wade is constitutional law, probably forever. OK, fine.

Where President Bush has denied any taxpayer funding of abortions, Kerry – asked in St. Louis if he would force pro-life Christians who believe abortion is murder to finance them with their tax dollars – said he would not deny poor women abortions they could not otherwise afford. In other words, a President Kerry would renew federal funding for abortions.

But Kerry went further: "I am a Catholic, raised a Catholic. I was an altar boy. Religion has been a huge part of my life ... But I can't take what is an article of faith for me and legislate it for someone who doesn't share that article of faith, whether they be agnostic, atheist, Jew, Protestant, whatever. I can't do that."

Thus, President John Kerry would not act to protect the life of a single unborn child, because that would be imposing his religious beliefs on dissenters. But he will impose the moral beliefs of pro-abortion atheists and agnostics on Catholics and Christians by forcing them to fund what their faith teaches is the killing of innocent unborn children.

Hmmmm….

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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-29-2004, 07:24 AM
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RE: Oh, the tangled web we weave...

Is this supposed to be something new? You should have watched the debates.

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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-29-2004, 11:49 AM
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RE: Oh, the tangled web we weave...

IMHO:

I'm very pro-choice, and I understand why there are those who feel state-funded or state-subsidized abortion should be policy, but I just can't buy into public funding of elective abortion, any more than I can buy into public funding of, I dunno, vasectomies. If it's a nonelective, medically necessary abortion (necessary to protect life or physical health of the mother), it should be treated like any other medical procedure with regards to public funding.
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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-29-2004, 01:09 PM
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RE: Oh, the tangled web we weave...

What about elective abortions where rape or incest caused the pregnancy? Shouldn't that be funded similarly?

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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-29-2004, 01:43 PM
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RE: Oh, the tangled web we weave...

"Now see if you can you can follow me on this?"

Was that supposed to be blinding insight?

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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-29-2004, 02:04 PM
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RE: Oh, the tangled web we weave...

It seems simple enough to me. Kerry opposes political litmus tests for Supreme Court justice appointments, and Bush will impose them.

BTW, nominating justices who will uphold the Constitution is not a litmus test, it's a requirement.

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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-29-2004, 02:25 PM
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RE: Oh, the tangled web we weave...

Quote:
webwench - 10/29/2004 1:49 PM

IMHO:

I'm very pro-choice, and I understand why there are those who feel state-funded or state-subsidized abortion should be policy, but I just can't buy into public funding of elective abortion, any more than I can buy into public funding of, I dunno, vasectomies. If it's a nonelective, medically necessary abortion (necessary to protect life or physical health of the mother), it should be treated like any other medical procedure with regards to public funding.
How dare you inject reason into this insane forum.
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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-29-2004, 02:32 PM
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RE: Oh, the tangled web we weave...

Quote:
old300D - 10/29/2004 3:09 PM

What about elective abortions where rape or incest caused the pregnancy? Shouldn't that be funded similarly?
That's a good question, I hadn't thought about that.

If you do make a distinction... how do you verify/enforce the distinction?

That's tricky. My idea involves avoiding the idea of basing fees or coverage on 'fault', and looks at medical necessity. I might stick with that... but offering an incest victim, who is probably a juvenile, no assistance at all, seems harsh.
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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-29-2004, 02:48 PM
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RE: Oh, the tangled web we weave...

But if you start from the proposition that a fetus is a human life with rights and abortion is murder what is the rational for the incest/rape exception.

Is a human conceived under these circumstances less human? Are we endowed with less rights based on who are father is?

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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-29-2004, 03:20 PM
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RE: Oh, the tangled web we weave...

Quote:
koop - 10/29/2004 2:48 PM

But if you start from the proposition that a fetus is a human life with rights and abortion is murder what is the rational for the incest/rape exception.

Is a human conceived under these circumstances less human? Are we endowed with less rights based on who are father is?
Good questions all. I'm not going to pretend to have any answers either.

My wife, nor I, would ever consider having an abortion. But that option is readily apparent: My wife's last pregnancy was considered high risk, and the medical people were pushing amniocentesis to make a positive genetic determination on our son's condition. Ultrasound revealed a heart deformity. We refused additional testing because the outcome would not change -- we would never abort. Turns out our son needed (and received) heart surgery, and he has a genetic abnormality that has slowed his development. However he is the most wonderful child we could ever hope for.

I still would not want to deny anyone the personal choice to end a pregnancy; we were trusted with that choice, and I'm glad we had the strength to make the proper one.

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