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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-18-2004, 09:22 PM Thread Starter
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Response: Kerry and his Communist Pals...

I was asked to provide information about a comment I made in another post. I thought I would start a new thread because I’m sure that certain individuals will try to twist the facts for their own agenda. So here’s a little history lesson on the beloved Kerry that some want running this country…

JimSmith - 10/17/2004 7:10 PM

jamminjames - 10/17/2004 3:28 PM

Jim: It's simple - Kerry KNEW about the POWs in Vietnam, but rallied for the North Vietnam communist cause which in-turn said no POWs existed...

They were left behind because of Kerry working with Hanoi Jane. Period. It's fact.

And the real kicker is he wanted this so one of his family's business dealings (company) could handle real-estate business for North Vietnam.

He saved lives? He left POWs to rot and die while his family could make more money.

It's disgusting. Talk about AWOL all you want...

But I'm sure the radical left will sugar-coat it somehow.

You have got to do better than that. Please explain exactly how Kerry caused POWs to be left behind. Also, how about a name for that real estate business in North Vietnam, with some earning statements for 1968-1972? Love to see how an American real estate company did business in North Vietnam during those years. Or the next 5.

Jim, I’ll do better than that. Have patience, because I’ll provide the facts. Cold hard facts. And this is the guy you want handling our foreign relations and military…

kvining - 10/17/2004 12:28 AM

jamminjames - 10/18/2004 12:41 AM

Most of my info is at work. I'll post the facts Monday night.

I figured you'd ask.
An intellectual giant is preparing his disseration on why Kerry is a murderous traitor, and why he is not in fact, nuts. Stay tuned.

Well, this one time I’ll answer your reply. Kvining, I really don’t place to much in what you say. Your hatred for Bush is so intense that you really don’t care who you replace him with. Just like M. Moore, you really make me chuckle when you rant. But you asked for it. And unlike most of the twisted half-truths the radical left wants you to believe, this is the whole truth…

First a little background:

While in command of Swift Boat 44, Kerry and crew operated without prudence in a Free Fire Zone, carelessly firing at targets of opportunity racking up a number of enemy kills and some civilians. His body count included-- a woman, her baby, a 12 year-old boy, an elderly man and several South Vietnamese soldiers.
"It is one of those terrible things, and I'll never forget, ever, the sight of that child," Kerry later said about the dead baby. "But there was nothing that anybody could have done about it. It was the only instance of that happening.
Kerry said he was appalled that the Navy's ''free fire zone'' policy in Vietnam put civilians at such high risk.

Kerry experienced his first intense combat action on Dec. 2, 1968. He was slightly wounded on his arm, earning his first Purple Heart.
In late January 1969, Kerry joined a five-man crew on swift boat No. 94 completing 18 missions over 48 days, almost all of them in the Mekong Delta.
Kerry earned his second Purple Heart after sustaining a minor shrapnel wound in his left thigh on Feb. 20, 1969.
Kerry was given a Silver Star for an action on February 28, 1969:
When Kerry's Patrol Craft Fast 94 received a B-40 rocket shot from shore, he hot dogged his craft beaching it in the center of the enemy position. To his surprise, an enemy soldier sprang up from a hole not ten feet from Patrol Craft 94 and fled.
The boat's machine gunner hit and wounded the fleeing Viet Cong as he darted behind a hootch. The twin .50s gunner fired at the Viet Cong. He said he "laid 50 rounds" into the hootch before Kerry leaped from the boat and dashed in to administer a "coup de grace" to the wounded Viet Cong “in the back�. Kerry returned with the B-40 rocket and launcher..
On March 13, 1969, a mine detonated near Kerry's boat, slighting wounding Kerry in the right arm. He was awarded his third Purple Heart.
When later asked about the severity of the wounds, Kerry said that one of them cost him about two days of service, and that the other two did not interrupt his duty. "Walking wounded," as Kerry put it.
In April 1969, having engineered an early transfer out of the conflict because of his three minor wounds, John Kerry left his crew behind and returned home to a sweet assignment as an admiral's aide.
After arriving stateside, he attended a February 1971, VVAW conference bankrolled by Jane Fonda, the group's most prominent promoter. Over 125 self-proclaimed Vietnam veterans testified at a Detroit Howard Johnson's about wholesale rape, torture, and murder they claimed U.S. soldiers committed in Vietnam.
Kerry later said he found the accounts shocking and irrefutable (flip-flop?).
Kerry soon assumed a leadership position in the rabid pro-communist VVAW organization.
As a national leader of VVAW, Kerry campaigned against the effort of the United States to contain the spread of Communism. He used the blood of servicemen still in the field for his own political advancement by claiming that their blood was being shed unnecessarily or in vain.
Under Kerry's leadership, VVAW members mocked the uniform of United States soldiers by wearing tattered fatigues marked with pro-communist graffiti. They dishonored America by marching in demonstrations under the flag of the Viet Cong enemy.
Kerry organized one of the most confrontational protests of the entire Vietnam War called Operation Dewey Canyon III. It began April 18, 1971, with nearly 1,000 Vietnam vets gathered on the Washington, D.C., Mall for what they called "a limited incursion into the country of Congress.

Sen. Ted Kennedy and protest leader Kerry discuss the demonstration.

On April 23, 1971, Kerry led members of VVAW in a protest during which they threw their medals and ribbons over a fence in front of the U.S. Capitol. Later Kerry confirmed that the medals he threw over the fence were not even his…
"We came here to undertake one last mission, to search out and destroy the last vestige of this barbaric war," Kerry told the cheering mass.
At a jammed Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on April 23, 1971, Kerry took his case to Congress. In a room crammed with television cameras, Kerry, dressed in green fatigues decorated with a Silver Star, Bronze Star and three Purple Heart ribbons, gave testimony that defined him and made possible his political career.

Kerry was a supporter of the "People's Peace Treaty," a supposed "people's" declaration to end the war, reportedly drawn up in communist East Germany.
It included nine points, all of which were taken from Viet Cong peace proposals at the Paris peace talks as conditions for ending the war.
One of the provisions stated: "The Vietnamese pledge that as soon as the U.S. government publicly sets a date for total withdrawal [from Vietnam], they will enter discussion to secure the release of all American prisoners, including pilots captured while bombing North Vietnam."
In other words, Kerry and his VVAW advocated the communist line to withdraw all U.S. troops from Vietnam first and then negotiate with Hanoi over the release of prisoners. Had the nine points of the "People's Peace Treaty" favored by Kerry been accepted by American negotiators, the United States would have totally lost all leverage to get the communists to release any POWs captured during the war years.
Several weeks later, Kerry was featured in a on CBS's "60 Minutes." Correspondent Morley Safer, in the segment portrayed Kerry as an eloquent man who had a "Kennedyesque" future. "Do you want to be president of the United States?" Safer asked Kerry.
"No," Kerry replied. "That's such a crazy question when there are so many things to be done and I don't know whether I could do them."
Pictured below, VVAW supported demonstration during the Washington Spring Offensive, April - May 1971. Notice the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong flags.

Kerry ran for election to the U.S. House in 1972 during which he found it necessary to suppress reproduction of the cover picture appearing on his own book, The New Soldier. His political opponent pointed out that it depicted several unkempt youths crudely handling an upside down American flag to mock the famous photo of the U.S. Marines at Iwo Jima.
He graduated from Boston College Law School in 1976, then worked as an Assistant District Attorney in Middlesex County. He was elected Lieutenant Governor in 1982. Then Elected to the U.S. Senate in 1984.

In 1991, the United States Senate created the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs to examine the possibility that U.S. POW/MIAs might still be held by the Vietnamese.
As chairman of the Select Committee, Kerry proved himself to be a masterful chameleon portraying to the public at large what appeared to be an unbiased approach to resolving the POW/MIA issue.
But, in reality, no one in the United States Senate pushed harder to bury the POW/MIA issue, the last obstacle preventing normalization of relations with Hanoi, than John Forbes Kerry.
In fact, his first act as chairman was to travel to Southeast Asia, where during a stopover in Bangkok, Thailand, he lectured the U.S. Chamber of Commerce there on the importance of lifting the trade embargo and normalizing relations with Vietnam.
During the entire life of the Senate Select Committee, Kerry never missed a chance to propaganderize and distort the facts in favor of Hanoi.

In December of 1992, not long after Kerry was quoted in the world press stating "President Bush should reward Vietnam within a month for its increased cooperation in accounting for American MIAs," Vietnam announced it had granted Boston, Massachusetts based Colliers International, a contract worth billions. Colliers International became exclusive real estate agent representing Vietnam.

C. Stewart Forbes, Chief Executive Officer of Colliers International (Kerry's cousin), was awarded a contract worth billions designating Colliers International as the exclusive real estate agent representing Vietnam.
That deal alone put Colliers in a position to make tens of millions of dollars on the rush to upgrade Vietnam's ports, railroads, highways, government buildings, etc.

Sydney H. Schanberg, associate editor and columnist for New York Newsday and Pulitzer Prize winning journalist veteran of the Indochina War whose book, The Death and Life of Dith Pran, became the subject of the Academy Award-winning film The Killing Fields, chronicled some of Kerry's more blatant pro-Hanoi biases in several of his columns.
In a Nov. 21, 1993 column, Schanberg wrote, "Highly credible information has been surfacing in recent days which indicates that the headlines you have been reading about a 'breakthrough' in Hanoi's cooperation on the POW/MIA issue are part of a carefully scripted performance. The apparent purpose is to move toward normalization of relations with Hanoi.
"Sen. John F. Kerry, chairman of the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, is one of the key figures pushing for normalization. Kerry is currently on a visit to Vietnam where he has been doing two things: (1) praising the Vietnamese effusively for granting access to their war archives and (2) telling the press that there's no believable evidence to back up the stories of live POWs still being held. "Ironically, that very kind of live-POW evidence has been brought to Kerry's own committee on a regular basis over the past year, and he has repeatedly sought to impeach its value.
Moreover, Kerry and his allies on the committee - such as Sens. John McCain, Nancy Kassebaum and Tom Daschle - have worked to block much of this evidence from being made public."
In the Senate debate itself, Kerry, rather than embarass Vietnam by demanding the truth, launched a highly publicized diversionary investigation of the POW/MIA families and activists, who were demanding an honest accounting.
Kerry labeled them "professional malcontents, conspiracy mongers, con artists, and dime-store Rambos" who were only involved in the POW/MIA issue for money.
Pictured below, Sen. John Kerry in Hanoi seated under a bust of Communist Vietnam's deceased leader, Ho Chi Minh.

The Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs published in its January 1993 Final Report (page 6) that American servicemen were left behind alive and in captivity.
Kerry's Select Committee staff, in order to soft pedal this abandonment, added in the report "We acknowledge that there is no proof that U.S. POWs survived."
Kerry's "no proof" assertion, was an outright lie. It was an effort by Kerry's pro-Hanoi staff to bury our POW/MIA's and further open the doors to trade with Vietnam.
Kerry maintained there was "no proof U.S. POWs survived," but never produced evidence proving the left behind POWs were dead, or who was responsible for their deaths or where their remains were located.
Kerry never demanded that Vietnam explain.

Yeah, I want him running our country. Say what you want about Bush...

Let the lefties begin...

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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-18-2004, 09:39 PM
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We're doomed! Doomed I tell you....

...Good lord man, if this ever gets out, Kerry will never be elected!!!!!! I don't think those "facts" could ever be refuted...oh man oh man oh man, whatever will we do?!?!?!?
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-18-2004, 10:05 PM
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RE: Response: Kerry and his Communist Pals...

"cold hard facts" LOL

How about citing some authority?

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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-18-2004, 10:15 PM
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RE: Response: Kerry and his Communist Pals...

Find a source other than

until then, grow up.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-18-2004, 10:26 PM
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RE: Response: Kerry and his Communist Pals...

What a pathetic reach. Please tell me why a decorated vet who thought the war he'd seen and participated in was wrong should stay silent in a democracy? Are you attempting to contend that what he said was false? Ever opened a book on the Vietnam war? cuckoo?!?

please explain your obvious pathological fear and hatred of 'communism', and why meeting with communist leaders is wrong.

oh yeah, by the way, part of a Senator's job is helping broker biz deals with foreign powers and his/her consituents. He got a biz deal for a biz in Boston? kudos. I suppose he must have thought that all those years of demanding answers about vietnam and getting soldiers out were secondary in importance to cousin Forbsey. I guess he convinced former POW McCain that his cousin was more important as well, and he's such a pushover- no personal stake in the issue at all.

the entire scathing piece is rife with the typical presupositions and flame-phrases of sensationalist writing. From where did you yank it? Swift-Boat Vets for Bush? Here's a similar passage of my creation: Then, he actually stood up and said gays should have rights! In front of congress! And, in his vote on SB 211/34.3, he voted AGAINST giving gays rights! While we applaud Kerry's vote against this abomanation of God's will, blah blah blah blah blah.

craptastic proof. I am lost in dispair. Kerry, in his 20s, didn't want to be president. How can he ever have changed his mind. oh lordy no. we are doomed.

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-18-2004, 10:31 PM
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RE: Response: Kerry and his Communist Pals...


I'll give you some credit for trying. But the first half of your discussion conflicts with the basic premise that the Vietnam War was a bad thing. There was no Communist threat to the United States from the North Vietnamese Commies taking control of the South Vietnamese under some form of Western occupation designed to keep the two artificially separated "nations" separate.

Step back and look through all that anti-commie emotion. We went there, killed over 50,000 Americans, physically maimed tens of thousands more, and psychologically devasted tens of thousands more. We killed and maimed God knows how many Vietnamese. Then, we left when the national politics got so out of control we noticed we were killing our own kids on college campuses, and the pigs in the seat of power in Washington became concerned they might not be reelected. North Vietnam took over and united with South Vietnam, and everyone shortly thereafter lived happily ever after.

We left and nothing bad happened. No commies came after us. We left and nothing bad happened. But we killed 50,000 plus Americans, physically maimed tens of thousands more, and psychologically devasted tens of thousands more. We got the guts to admit an error, and get out, after kids took to the streets, just as you described, some got shot, many were beaten and jailed, and even more were subject to FBI investigations. But those kids in the street saved tens of thousands or more American lives because without the turmoil at home, those smug, arrogant politicians in Washington, DC of both parties would have continued the war for the same wrong reasons they started it. Some macho, testosterone induced frenzy of anti-commie crap that was good for manipulating the folks at home at election time. Just like today.

So, I discount your first half or so of evidence for your case as an opinion created to make Kerry look bad, when in fact, he was one of the heros of the anti-war movement. I was in that movement, attended demonstrations, handed out pamphlets and leaflets encouraging the civil disobedience needed to get the corrupt politicians of the day to worry about doing what is right instead of playing their game. The evidence that the anti-war movement was successful and right is that we left and nothing bad happened. We should never have gone. The fact that returning soldiers were abused by the American public is a shameful facet of our national persona. When the public realized the war was immoral and we left and nothing bad happened, they wrongfully took it out on soldiers. They should have strung up those morally bankrupt politicians who got us there and then kept us there.

So, I admire Kerry for leading the VVAW in a cause he believed in and ultimately helped end the war early. Shows much more guts and conviction than his opponent who not only arranged not to go, but then did not let his NG duties interfere with his activities as the son of a rich and powerful politician in Washington, DC.

I also think you fail to review the relative credibility of the sources of information in North Vietnam and within the United States concerning any of the political motives of the parties at the time. North Vietnam did not have it in for the United States. They had hoped we were going to be a friendly asset to them. They did not attack us or begin some propaganda war with us. We did the attacking and the running of a propaganda war with them. All the North Vietnamese wanted was for us to get out and leave them to the task of uniting their country. So, the fact that there were and are entities that spin data to wind up families of missing Vietnam War Vets is unfortunate. But none have given any indication of why the North Vietnamese would want to either keep these souls alive, and captured, or hide their remains. The fact that we lost pilots over hostile, jungle-like land that was sparsely populated compared to our asphalt jungles and their bodies have not been recovered is not that incomprehensible. Jet planes hitting objects, like buildings or the ground or trees at Mach 1 or thereabouts don't leave readily identifiable remains. I also don't think the North Vietnamese took recovery of these American invaders' bodies as a high priority in a time of war. That may sound crass but it is likely not far from the truth.

So, Kerry tried to get what he could by cooperating after others had spent 20 years or more getting nothing by not cooperating. And Kerry got nothing too. Maybe there was nothing to be got. But playing "hardball" with the Vietnamese government for another 20 years was not going to get anywhere, even if there were some Americans still captive in Vietnam. Kerry's point of view was more rational, suggesting with normalized relations and an American business presence there, more American interactions with Vietnamese citizens would occur.

So, I conclude your dissertation on how Kerry has caused Americans to be left behind less than complete. You failed to note the tactic you seem to suggest is more to your liking, being belligerent and bellicose about how we know they have Americans there and demanding satisfaction, did not work from 1972 to 1992. There was no indication this tactic was about to yield results. And you offer no facts that the conclusion that there is no proof any Americans are or were still alive in captivity there at the time is not true.

Finally, the real estate deal you suggested was going on while Kerry was the leader of the VVAW was actually something that came into being in 1992. You now offer no evidence this contract to a company with a relative of Kerry's as CEO (I will take your word that they are cousins) was awarded for any reason other than they made the best offer. Was it a sweetheart deal with no competition? What other international companies protested the award on the basis that it was a "tit for tat" deal, as you imply?

You have spent a bunch of effort, and it goes a longer way toward supporting your contentions about Kerry. But in my analysis it falls way short. Part of that is my prejudice against the War in Vietnam and to convince me Kerry, who did everything in his power to end the war as soon as possible, was behaving in a manner that hurt the United States you would have to convince me the war was not one of the most revolting and immoral events in America's history. We have done a few shameful things, like the genocide against the American Indians, slavery, the camps we held Japanese Americans in during WWII...but in each of those we seem to have come to the realization it was a horrible and hateful episode in our history that should never be repeated. From your reactions to Kerry it seems we have not really accounted for the Vietnam War yet. But it too was universally wrong. There was nothing good about it - only an immense horror of dehumanizing experiences for all involved that pit parents against children, neighbor against neighbor and America against its allies. Iraq is so similar it is very difficult to understand how all of us don't see the pattern. But we will when we start seeing fraggings of officers by enlisted men, protests at home that end in shooting our kids. At some point we will realize the war in Iraq is as wrong as the war in Vietnam was.

So, yes, I do want Kerry to lead this country. I want someone who has lived according to his convictions. Someone who took personal risks to fight for what he thought was right, in a war zone overseas and back at home. We see different sides of the same coin. Mine is just not twisted by some unsupportable contention that there was something honorable associated with our "mission" in Vietnam. But, thanks for the read. It helps put your point of view in perspective. Jim
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RE: Response: Kerry and his Communist Pals...

Real proof looks like this:

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RE: Response: Kerry and his Communist Pals...

I think I'm going to get me some communist pals. er, comrades...

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RE: Response: Kerry and his Communist Pals...

How are those "United We Stand" stickers selling? The "Defend America/Defeat Bush" are staring to catch on, but I'm afraid it's too late. "Try to Bring Back Freedom in 2008"
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-18-2004, 11:27 PM
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RE: Response: Kerry and his Communist Pals...

Jammin, I know you think we are all going to jump all over that cut and paste thing you put up - not me, I'm going to do you a favor, and show you how this is done, so you can do it to me some time. First I am going to make an ASSERTION:

"Remember how Bush has said for months, it started right about the time people bevgan to question if the War was botched, rmeber how he said that he always "gave the generals what they asked for" and how according to Bush, the generals always said they had everything they asked for? Well, he was lying. Here is a new news stroy, seems someone leaked a memo from Gen Sanchez to Bush, where Gen Sanchez is telling Bush he needs all kinds of stuff:

Next, I offer PROOF:

In memo, Iraq war general noted readiness problems
Kerry: Sanchez's complaints prove Bush mishandled war
Monday, October 18, 2004 Posted: 8:26 PM EDT (0026 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The war in Iraq again became a focus of the presidential race Monday with the leak of a document from a former top U.S. commander who questioned the Army's preparedness.

Army Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez wrote a memo in December 2003 in which he complained to top Army officials about a shortage of spare parts, lack of protective gear and poor readiness rates for Army weapons in Iraq.

The memo was leaked to the Washington Post, which first reported it in Monday's editions. CNN has since seen a copy of the memo, dated December 4, and also obtained a December 13 response from Gen. George Casey, then vice chief of the Army.

Casey has since replaced Sanchez in Iraq.

The leaked Pentagon document brought fresh accusations from Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry. He complained in Florida that President Bush's "mismanagement" of the Iraq war has left the United States less secure than it should be.

In a later speech in New Jersey, Bush largely ignored the Iraq war and instead reminded voters of the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.

The Sanchez memo said, in part, "I cannot continue to support sustained combat operations with rates this low." He was referring to the Army's readiness rates, which measure unit strength and how well equipment has been maintained.

The rate had fallen to 84 percent for Abrams main battle tanks, 85 percent for Bradley armored fighting vehicles and between 63 and 72 percent for Army helicopters.

At the time, Sanchez noted that the Army was struggling to maintain even those relatively low readiness rates and warned he could not ensure sustained combat operations could continue if the problem was not fixed.

Army officials have acknowledged that there were challenges in getting adequate supplies to troops in Iraq but say the problem was quickly solved.

"I share your concern about our Army's operational readiness and force protection posture," Casey said in his reply to Sanchez.

Monday, an Army official with direct knowledge of the situation said, "Any concerns raised by the general have been addressed."

However, last week a group of 18 soldiers refused orders to take part in a fuel convoy in Iraq because they feared their equipment was not properly maintained and did not have adequate safety equipment.

The Army called that an isolated incident and initiated an investigation. (Full story)

Vehicle readiness rates are now better than 90 percent, thanks to improvements in the delivery of spare parts. The helicopter readiness rate is 75 percent, an Army official said. Both numbers are within the Army's required level.

At a rally in West Palm Beach, Kerry said that after the Sanchez memo was sent, "George Bush went out and told the American people" that the troops were properly equipped.

"Despite the president's arrogant boasting that he's done everything right in Iraq and that he's made no mistakes, the truth is beginning to come out, and it's beginning to catch up with him," Kerry said.

Bush did argue in December, and has argued since, that the troops were properly equipped. It was not immediately clear whether the president knew about the Sanchez memo.

Bush campaign officials have criticized Kerry for voting against an $87 billion supplemental spending bill for Iraq and Afghanistan, saying it was a vote against important equipment for troops.

Kerry disputes the characterization, saying he never opposed support for troops but did disagree with the final version of the bill because of how it would be funded.

He had previously voted for an $87 billion spending bill that would have paid the cost, in part, through a roll-back of tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. That measure was defeated.

Kerry said at the rally that Bush continues to "mislead America."

"Let me tell you something that I learned when I fought in Vietnam: Listen to the troops and give the troops the equipment that they need," Kerry said.

Bush spoke to supporters in Marlton, New Jersey, saying the United States needs "a president who defends America and fights for the middle class."

Bush turned around an argument Kerry frequently uses. Kerry often says Bush has alienated allies and entered Iraq without a broad coalition, noting that 90 percent of the coalition casualties have been Americans.

But Bush said Kerry has alienated allies because "he never shows respect for some of the 30 nations that are serving courageously in Iraq today."

Kerry said Bush must acknowledge his mistakes.

"Mr. President, when it comes to the war in Iraq, it is time to come clean and acknowledge what your military leaders have told you privately," he said. "The bottom line, Mr. President, is that your mismanagement of the war has, in fact, made Iraq and America less safe and less secure than they could have been and that they should have been today."

Then I offer a conclusion:

Bush is a no good lying bastard

See, that's all there is to it!

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