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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-11-2004, 06:36 PM Thread Starter
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terrorism detainess disapear.....



Group: al-Qaida Detainees 'Disappeared'

27 minutes ago U.S. National - AP


By SAM DOLNICK, Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK - At least 11 al-Qaida suspects have "disappeared" in U.S. custody, and some may have been tortured, Human Rights Watch said in a report issued Monday.



The prisoners are probably being held outside the United States without access to the Red Cross or any oversight of their treatment, the human rights group said. In some cases, the United States will not even acknowledge the prisoners are in custody.


The report said the prisoners include the alleged architect of the Sept. 11 attacks, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, as well as Abu Zubaydah, who is believed to be a close aide to Osama bin Laden (news - web sites).


In refusing to disclose the prisoners' whereabouts or acknowledge the detentions, Human Rights Watch said, the U.S. government has violated international law, international treaties and the Geneva Convention. The group called on the government to bring all the prisoners "under the protection of the law."


"I think the U.S. demeans itself when it adopts the philosophy that the ends justify the means in the fight against terror," said Reed Brody, special counsel with Human Rights Watch.


CIA (news - web sites) spokesman Mark Mansfield said the agency has not seen the report and declined to comment.


The report — titled "The United States' `Disappeared:' The CIA's Long-term 'Ghost Detainees'" — said many of the prisoners have provided valuable intelligence to U.S. officials. But it also cited reports that some detainees have lied under pressure to please their interrogators.


Human Rights Watch has no firsthand knowledge of the treatment of these detainees. Much of the report stems from news accounts that have cited unidentified government sources acknowledging the torture or mistreatment of detainees.


The report provides a brief sketch of 11 detainees believed to be incommunicado in undisclosed locations. They hail from countries across the Arab world, including Libya, Yemen, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. U.S. authorities have confirmed the detention of six of them, the report said.



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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-11-2004, 06:40 PM Thread Starter
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RE: terrorism detainess disapear.....

Just thought I'd see what the general feeling is about detainess "disappearing?" or being tortured.

I am quite sure the ACLU would have a field day if they could, since these aren't Americans they have no choice.

I personally could give a rats ass what happens or if they are tortured or not, just get some useful info out of them.

The end justifies the means as far as this is concerned. If one detainess, or 10 or 100 are tortured and subsequently murdered to prevent 1 car bombing, or beheading, etc...I'm all for it.
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-11-2004, 06:42 PM
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RE: terrorism detainess disapear.....

I'm not having a real bummer over that. There is a well-accepted defense under the laws of war that applies to torture called "battle necessity" that says if a prisoner falls into your hands on a battlefield and you find it necessary to torture him to get information to save the lives of your fellow soldiers, then by all means, enjoy yourself. If someone felt it was necessary to torture these guys to prevent another 9-11, well, tsk, tsk, tsk, ain't that a bitch.

The ACLU would only have a problem if they were US citizens in American soil. American law gives the military totalitarian control on the battlefield, it is a fundamental of American law that was established by Lincoln - it is the source of the power he claimed to free the slaves.

When you join the military, you essentially agree to leaving our free society and become a citizen of the military's own fascist empire, which exists outside of the Bill of Rights - and things work well that way. We'd never win a war if civil rights got involved the way it does at home. Truman was able to desegregate the military decades before the civil rights era simply by ordering it - the power of the Commander in Chief in this country over the military is the great absolute power he controls. Anybody captured by the military is subject to those same legal principles. They simply have no rights under the Constitution. That's why we park em at Gitmo instead of flying them into Florida. Once they enter the states, they come under civil law. I was really surprised when the Supremes gave them a right to a hearing - its the first time any right has been recognized for them.

I've been an ACLU member for 30 years, and I have never heard of a single case that involved the military.
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-11-2004, 06:47 PM Thread Starter
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RE: terrorism detainess disapear.....

KV, 827 posts already....man you must talk like a MOFO in person. Lol[:D]
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-11-2004, 06:53 PM
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RE: terrorism detainess disapear.....

We'll, I've never talked to a MOFO, at least not knowingly, so i don't know if that is good or bad. I just hate television. I'd rather argue with the screen than stare at it like an idiot.
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-11-2004, 07:11 PM
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RE: terrorism detainess disapear.....

Quote:
Plantman - 10/11/2004 8:47 PM

KV, 827 posts already....man you must talk like a MOFO in person. Lol[:D]
I thought he was Christopher Reeve with voice recognition hooked to broadband. Unfortunately that appears not to be the case.

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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-11-2004, 07:13 PM Thread Starter
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RE: terrorism detainess disapear.....

OK. Gotta go watch Monday night Football.

See my post about Chavez saying crude oil should be 100.00 a barrel.
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-11-2004, 07:15 PM
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RE: terrorism detainess disapear.....

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Plantman - 10/11/2004 8:36 PM



Group: al-Qaida Detainees 'Disappeared'

27 minutes ago U.S. National - AP


By SAM DOLNICK, Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK - At least 11 al-Qaida suspects have "disappeared" in U.S. custody, and some may have been tortured, Human Rights Watch said in a report issued Monday.
How many more 'detainees' do they have? Sounds like a great plan to me!![;)]

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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-11-2004, 08:15 PM
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RE: terrorism detainess disapear.....

Once again, the US hearts n' minds campaign proves to the world that the rules don't apply as far as we're concerned, in fact we can make them up as we go. This ought to go over real well on the Arab street.
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-11-2004, 08:18 PM
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RE: terrorism detainess disapear.....

I agree Z -- the U.S. has obviously abandoned any pretense in regard to wearing the white hats or being a world leader. Leaders lead by example, after all...

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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