and the winner of 1st debate is......? - Page 7 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

View Poll Results: and the winner of 1st debate is......?
George Bush 11 30.56%
John Kerry 25 69.44%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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post #61 of 92 (permalink) Old 10-01-2004, 09:28 AM
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RE: and the winner of 1st debate is......?

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old300D - 10/1/2004 11:04 AM

Quote:
webwench - 10/1/2004 8:43 AM

The winner of the debate was...whoever you supported to begin with :P
How do you think Bush won the debate? You don't have to become a Kerry supporter if you think he didn't...
What gave you the idea I think Bush won the debate? [:D]
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post #62 of 92 (permalink) Old 10-01-2004, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
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RE: and the winner of 1st debate is......?

Quote:
webwench - 10/1/2004 10:28 AM

Quote:
old300D - 10/1/2004 11:04 AM

Quote:
webwench - 10/1/2004 8:43 AM

The winner of the debate was...whoever you supported to begin with :P
How do you think Bush won the debate? You don't have to become a Kerry supporter if you think he didn't...
What gave you the idea I think Bush won the debate? [:D]
Nader wins!!! ha, ha, ha....



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post #63 of 92 (permalink) Old 10-01-2004, 10:01 AM Thread Starter
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RE: and the winner of 1st debate is......?

even the street thinks kerry won. look at todays numbers. yesssssssssssssssssssssss.



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post #64 of 92 (permalink) Old 10-01-2004, 10:05 AM
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RE: and the winner of 1st debate is......?

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GermanStar - 10/3/2004 10:26 AM

A post on another site actually described Bush as 'looking and acting presidential'. President of what?
...the Liar's Club.
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post #65 of 92 (permalink) Old 10-01-2004, 10:11 AM
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RE: and the winner of 1st debate is......?

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GermanStar - 10/1/2004 11:26 AM

That strikes me as rather curious. It's difficult to imagine how any unbiased individual could declare Bush the winner. A post on another site actually described Bush as 'looking and acting presidential'. President of what?
Hey man, they were all drinking the Koolaid on that thread. If Gollom was the model for looking presidential, Howie might be right.

Surprising are the "online polls" which are all showing (with the exception of the government owned and operated media over at Fox News) a 75/25 split. Those polls degrade in accuracy over time because partisans that have access to a lot of computers skew the vote, but they are a really good indication of initial reaction because of the really large sample size you get in the first hour they are put up.

Even Fox News's poll was bad news for Bush. They show 40% saying Bush won, 30% Kerry, 30% tied. Given the partisan nature of their web audience, the fact that even they could not muster an over 50% showing essentially means even his own side says Kerry won, or at the very least, that he performed as good as or better than Bush.



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post #66 of 92 (permalink) Old 10-01-2004, 11:16 AM
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RE: and the winner of 1st debate is......?

The first debate is over and as expected, Bush survived. The debate over who won the debate is distracting. It is the election that counts and there are two more debates.

As far as Kerry's performance went, I thought he missed the mark when he was asked to cite cases of Bush misleading the American people. He went off on some tangent like he couldn't think of any. Big missed opportunity.

I also thought Kerry would have honned in on the difference between the importance of the "Message" as Bush kept going on and on about, and REALITY. The other item he needs to tag Bush on is his perception that any international cooperation involving American armed forces is immediately equated to abdicating control over our forces to some foriegn government. This theme of diplomacy not working is a key failing of Bush's and it opens him up for a real gut raking if Kerry wants to do it. I think he should. It is clear that because Bush is unable to convince anyone to follow his lead without a gun to their head or a "Dogpatch" wad of cash in their pocket (like Li'l Abner's Dogpatch Ham, as you ate it, it renewed itself overnight) he finds international cooperation concept that must be made out to be a pitfall and a threat to America. The point Kerry needs to make is the difference between a leader and an Bush is that a leader uses this international forum to gain acceptance and support for what America wants to do, not to give in to what others want to do. For 50 years we were able to do it, right up to when GWB showed up.

I don't know about the rest of you guys but I think Kerry could have damaged the President's ability to appear in public again. Maybe he didn't out of concern for national security or something, but I saw a much more agile and aggressive debater on tapes of his Senate campaign experiences recently. He let him off the hook when he could have cut him to pieces. Oh Well. Jim
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post #67 of 92 (permalink) Old 10-01-2004, 11:20 AM
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RE: and the winner of 1st debate is......?

Did you see my boy McCain's televised reaction to the debate? He all but screamed "Vote for Kerry!". He was trying hard to remain absolutely neutral and actually lauded Kerry for his desire to clean up the mess in Iraq. The more I see of McCain (and I see a lot of him around here), the more I like him.

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post #68 of 92 (permalink) Old 10-01-2004, 01:53 PM
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RE: and the winner of 1st debate is......?

I've not read much of the previous pages of this thread but I'll post my two cents here anyway.

If we have to proclaim a "winner" (didn't know a debate was a competition?) to this debate I'd probably give it to both Bush and Kerry.

Bush did look good (although I admit he did hunch and lean over the podium too much) and he performed and responded well to Kerry's punches. But Kerry did a lot better than was expected which is one reason why I think he's getting so much attention post debate. This was a win or die situation for him and I think a lot of people thought he'd struggle and when he didn't he came off shinning better than expected.

This was also a debate about foreign affairs -- a real sore spot for the Bush administration right now. I expected Bush to be more on the defense during this debate because it's a subject that is really a turkey shoot against Bush -- everybody expected Bush to get picked-away on Iraq during this debate. But, with that said, Bush did an excellent job of defending his position and holding his "own" throughout the night.

One thing that needs to be remembered, for the sakes of both Bush and Kerry, there are still two more presidential debates before Election Day. So Kerry may have come off with having achieved an "edge" on this one -- because of its subject matter -- he may not do so well on the next two because of their subject matter.

I'm curious how the national polls will show Kerry after this debate (not the dinky focus group polls taken right after the debate). I suspect he'll move up but by how much? This particular debate was his for the taking. If he still doesn't show a significant increase in the national polls it'll mean he didn't get the punch out of the debate that he needed – as he didn’t get much of one from the Democratic Convention. That could spell real trouble for Kerry in the long-run because the next two debates won't be as easy to come across shinning as he did on this one.
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post #69 of 92 (permalink) Old 10-01-2004, 02:12 PM
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RE: and the winner of 1st debate is......?

I really think people hold Bush to a different standard than the rest of humanity for some reason. Bush looked good? He was comparatively inarticulate, repetitive, slow on his feet, he stuttered constantly, and accused Kerry of placing our troops in danger by questioning his policies (heresy, anyone?). I had visions of Lloyd Benson debating Dan Quayle. How impressed were you that Bush found it necessary to reveal to the American public that he knew who Osama Bin Laden was? I was laughing my tail off...

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post #70 of 92 (permalink) Old 10-01-2004, 02:23 PM
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RE: and the winner of 1st debate is......?

Funny how we all see things differently -- glass half full, or half empty?

Bush had his share of gaffes last night -- but so did Kerry (depends on what you’re looking for, I guess).
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