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post #41 of 109 (permalink) Old 09-24-2004, 07:59 PM
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RE: Why Would Anyone Vote For Kerry

Here's more. I noticed this right off the bat on Sludge:


Clever as ever, Drudge makes it personal

salon.com

Employing some crude editing techniques, Matt Drudge today tried to convey the impression that one of Sen. John Kerry's staunchest defenders was backing off his praise for Kerry's war service. The misinformation attempt forced historian Douglas Brinkley to clarify his statement of full support for Kerry.

The dust-up grew out of a New York Times article today addressing each presidential candidate's military service as a political issue in light of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth accusations and the controversy surrounding Bush's Texas Air National Guard duty. The passage in question, which dealt with how the issue played with voters, reads as follows:

"Every American now knows that there's something really screwy about George Bush and the National Guard, and they know that John Kerry was not the war hero we thought he was," said Douglas Brinkley, the historian and author of a friendly biography of Mr. Kerry's war years, acknowledging that Mr. Kerry's opponents had succeeded in raising questions about his service.

"'It's kind of neutralized itself, just by tiring everybody out,' Mr. Brinkley said.'"

Although somewhat clumsily stated, the point was obvious; Brinkley's quote was meant to reflect the take-away for average news consumers, not Brinkley's view of Kerry.

Drudge, in linking to the article on his homepage simply posted: "'John Kerry was not the war hero we thought he was' ... -- Douglas Brinkley, Historian, author of friendly bio of Kerry's war years..."

This afternoon Brinkley released this statement: "A story in the September 24 New York Times leaves the false impression that I think John Kerry was not 'the war hero we thought he was.' Nothing could be further from the truth. He was a great American fighting man in Vietnam and deserved all of his medals. Over the past year I have vigorously defended Kerry's military record and will continue to do so. My comment was meant to be about the political consequences of the anti-Kerry Swift Boat attacks vs. the anti-Bush National Guard ones. I was speaking about public perceptions not my personal beliefs."

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post #42 of 109 (permalink) Old 09-24-2004, 08:04 PM
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RE: Why Would Anyone Vote For Kerry

And now, the news:
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post #43 of 109 (permalink) Old 09-24-2004, 08:05 PM
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RE: Why Would Anyone Vote For Kerry

Now Cap'n, that was a nice response. Thanks, Jim
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post #44 of 109 (permalink) Old 09-24-2004, 09:38 PM
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RE: Why Would Anyone Vote For Kerry

There's too much BS on this board to respond to each point, but here's my quick list of points.

• Stop calling our soldiers and Marines, Children. It's disrespectful to them. My father is a Marine and he would kick your ass if you called him a Child.

• Osama is outwitting us? The guy hasn't picked up a cell phone in 3 years, hasen't appeared on video in 3 years and is running from cave to cave somewhere in Pakistan.

• Kerry "volunteered" for Vietnam after his deferments were refused.

• Where's all the oil? Since this was an "oil grab" why is oil $50 a barrel? Fuck, we should have invaded Canada if it were for the oil.

• Long time allies? France, Germany? Are you kiding me? Our longest ally and friend is Australia. They're with us, so is Great Britain, Italy, Poland, Japan, Spain (until they pussed out). Why does Kerry continue to piss on these countries? These are our real friends. Germany was our ally when they had communism on their backs.

• Richard Clarke was a Clinton appointee, you didn't think that his book would be biased towards Clinton?

Again, only a quarter of Kerry supporters are voting for him because the like him, it's a vote against Bush. That's fine. That's your right, but it's also the reason he's going to lose this election. You guys will get to bitch and moan for 4 more years. Then it will be Rudy V. Hillary.

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post #45 of 109 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Why Would Anyone Vote For Kerry

Quote:
kvining - 9/24/2004 9:59 PM

Here's more. I noticed this right off the bat on Sludge:


Clever as ever, Drudge makes it personal

salon.com

Employing some crude editing techniques, Matt Drudge today tried to convey the impression that one of Sen. John Kerry's staunchest defenders was backing off his praise for Kerry's war service. The misinformation attempt forced historian Douglas Brinkley to clarify his statement of full support for Kerry.

The dust-up grew out of a New York Times article today addressing each presidential candidate's military service as a political issue in light of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth accusations and the controversy surrounding Bush's Texas Air National Guard duty. The passage in question, which dealt with how the issue played with voters, reads as follows:

"Every American now knows that there's something really screwy about George Bush and the National Guard, and they know that John Kerry was not the war hero we thought he was," said Douglas Brinkley, the historian and author of a friendly biography of Mr. Kerry's war years, acknowledging that Mr. Kerry's opponents had succeeded in raising questions about his service.

"'It's kind of neutralized itself, just by tiring everybody out,' Mr. Brinkley said.'"

Although somewhat clumsily stated, the point was obvious; Brinkley's quote was meant to reflect the take-away for average news consumers, not Brinkley's view of Kerry.

Drudge, in linking to the article on his homepage simply posted: "'John Kerry was not the war hero we thought he was' ... -- Douglas Brinkley, Historian, author of friendly bio of Kerry's war years..."

This afternoon Brinkley released this statement: "A story in the September 24 New York Times leaves the false impression that I think John Kerry was not 'the war hero we thought he was.' Nothing could be further from the truth. He was a great American fighting man in Vietnam and deserved all of his medals. Over the past year I have vigorously defended Kerry's military record and will continue to do so. My comment was meant to be about the political consequences of the anti-Kerry Swift Boat attacks vs. the anti-Bush National Guard ones. I was speaking about public perceptions not my personal beliefs."
So Drudge used the same techniques Michael Moore
uses, I'm shocked I tell you, shocked.
What goes around comes around.
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post #46 of 109 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 03:12 PM
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RE: Why Would Anyone Vote For Kerry

seems this topic stirred up some bs were mercedes drivers arents we bred to be republicans...

im 17 yrs old and im a junior in high school i have had democratic teachers telling me their liberal ways my whole life i was just smart enough to look past those things at look at the fact that in america the only way for things to realy work how they do is to keep john F'n kerry out of office and if anyone has noticed johnny is starting to get a little scared he is losing states all over the place he even started pulling adds in some stated (my native arizona is one) lets see who the real winner is gonna be in november
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post #47 of 109 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 03:31 PM
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RE: Why Would Anyone Vote For Kerry

Quote:
MikeV - 9/24/2004 11:38 PM

There's too much BS on this board to respond to each point, but here's my quick list of points.

• Stop calling our soldiers and Marines, Children. It's disrespectful to them. My father is a Marine and he would kick your ass if you called him a Child.

• Osama is outwitting us? The guy hasn't picked up a cell phone in 3 years, hasen't appeared on video in 3 years and is running from cave to cave somewhere in Pakistan.

• Kerry "volunteered" for Vietnam after his deferments were refused.

• Where's all the oil? Since this was an "oil grab" why is oil $50 a barrel? Fuck, we should have invaded Canada if it were for the oil.

• Long time allies? France, Germany? Are you kiding me? Our longest ally and friend is Australia. They're with us, so is Great Britain, Italy, Poland, Japan, Spain (until they pussed out). Why does Kerry continue to piss on these countries? These are our real friends. Germany was our ally when they had communism on their backs.

• Richard Clarke was a Clinton appointee, you didn't think that his book would be biased towards Clinton?

Again, only a quarter of Kerry supporters are voting for him because the like him, it's a vote against Bush. That's fine. That's your right, but it's also the reason he's going to lose this election. You guys will get to bitch and moan for 4 more years. Then it will be Rudy V. Hillary.
No intent to offend your father. I doubt he is under 25 years old though, and the biological distinction between a 17 year old and a 25 year old is not so specific as to be anything more than a blurred line between the end of puberty and the onset of adulthood. Check with your insurance company for an assessment by them of when adulthood, especially in single males, takes hold. These kids are easily lead, and unfortunately, mislead. Lots of cases of "adult" citizens being caught up in cults and the like. This is a feature of the human programming that is intended to be aroused to defend family, clan, or nation against real threats. It is inhuman to exploit it for a political reelection campaign.

The way I see it, we are still scared shitless of Osama and his band of assholes. And we have not caught him in three years of "really trying" so you tell me how he eludes us? Having us waylaid by an Iraq war that was not required to catch him sounds a little like he manipulated Bush, not Bush manipulating him. Take a good look at the sequence of events. We are reacting to him, and when he wants us to respond, he takes action. And we, with our simpleton President, respond precisely in a manner that helps Osama's cause.

Kerry, however you would like to put it, volunteered. Let's not rehash this too much. Bush did not, and then went AWOL, and then had favors from his father granted to keep him from being sent to Vietnam as regulations would have seen a regular AWOL SOB go.

Oil at $50 a barrel is benefitting the Oil Companies. Why would you think Bush would want to reduce the cost being borne by you and me, unless you are stinking rich (in which case you should be happy as you can buy lots of oil company stocks)? The best way to get a grab is to set up the pricing so your deal is really sweet.

Well, NATO was one of the most successful international military alliances in history. France and Germany were the major members. Those other countries you mentioned, with the exception of Britain, like Australia, Italy, Poland, Japan, and Spain (until they pussed out as you noted), contributed less than half of what the French and Germans contributed to NATO. Even after France has us remove our bases they were still the third, behind Germany and Britain, most significant power in the NATO alliance. NATO used to be run by the United States, and had the successful counter to the USSR and its "allies" under its belt. The Germans were very receptive to adopting most US policies until this Iraq fiasco. They called BULLSHIT! and we summarily mooned them instead of addressed their concerns. In hindsight, their concerns should have been our concerns. We have taught them to rely on their own information if they want to be on the right side of honoring treaties and behaving according their own constitution. We can thank the simpleton Bush for turning these old, formerly completely reliable allies into thorough skeptics of American motives and morals.

Richard Clarke had a new boss, like most civil servants get every 4 or 8 years. Loyalty to Clinton, who had served two consecutive terms and could no longer be considered for the POTUS office was unlikely to have played much of a role. I think it was more likely that his agenda was put on the back shelf after he had spent his career of late getting it to the forefront, that soured him on the Bush administration. How he elected to portray that in his book, and if his perceived demotion was a sour grapes motive for bashing Bush is something that can be debated by others. I thought he came off pretty good in the 9/11 Commission Report.

Get a grip on reality. Bush is ill equipped to function as POTUS. Forget hating him, he may well be a nice guy under different circumstances. Like at a bar, having a beer while watching a football game on a big screen TV. Like the rest of the guys I know doing that on weekends, he is just not qualified to be President. I believe his biggest appeal is that he is such a mediocre dude. Joe Average wants him to succeed because he is sensed to be one of them. It makes accepting his boners as "the best anyone could do" sound reasonable. Bush has lowered everyone's expectations to the point where a large percentage of Americans believe he is doing the best that can be expected under these circumstances. That is only true while he is President.

Unfortunately nature does not support such nice arrangements where uncompetitive life forms get to survive because it would be nice, or lots of people would like that. Tolerating an average or less guy in the office of POTUS will result in the United States continuing to lose ground, economically, in our role with our allied nations as well as our unimpressed former allies, and our enemies. It will weaken us militarily against the actual threats we face, like Osama and his successors. Bush has to go. Jim

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post #48 of 109 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 03:36 PM
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RE: Why Would Anyone Vote For Kerry

Quote:
benz na bcpk - 9/26/2004 5:12 PM

seems this topic stirred up some bs were mercedes drivers arents we bred to be republicans...

im 17 yrs old and im a junior in high school i have had democratic teachers telling me their liberal ways my whole life i was just smart enough to look past those things at look at the fact that in america the only way for things to realy work how they do is to keep john F'n kerry out of office and if anyone has noticed johnny is starting to get a little scared he is losing states all over the place he even started pulling adds in some stated (my native arizona is one) lets see who the real winner is gonna be in november
My point exactly. And you are correct. November will tell. Jim
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post #49 of 109 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 05:27 PM
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RE: Why Would Anyone Vote For Kerry

I voted for Bliar seven years ago. His victory ended 17 years of patronising, corrupt, patrician tory rule. It was a time of optimism, when political sleaze would be swept aside, corporate welfare stomped on, and social cohesion a worthy goal.

None of this happened. TB is now despised by many if not most of those who voted for him and New Labour.

And here's the rub: will this be Kerry, a few years from now?


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post #50 of 109 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 07:06 PM
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RE: Why Would Anyone Vote For Kerry

Quote:
jjl - 9/26/2004 7:27 PM

I voted for Bliar seven years ago. His victory ended 17 years of patronising, corrupt, patrician tory rule. It was a time of optimism, when political sleaze would be swept aside, corporate welfare stomped on, and social cohesion a worthy goal.

None of this happened. TB is now despised by many if not most of those who voted for him and New Labour.

And here's the rub: will this be Kerry, a few years from now?

Every decision like this is an educated guess. If I was better than that at it I would be rich. But from where I sit, in Connecticut, USA, it is clear the path we are on now, careening out of control from collosal error in judgement to another, reacting to the baiting of terrorists instead of stamping them out, and watching the economic engine of America sputtering to a low ebb on the fuel of exporting jobs instead of good, is fatal to our way of life.

Kerry may not be perfect, but he is not steeped in mediocrity. Assessing his leadership is not dependent on accepting the lowered standards of Abu Graib, "going it alone" because he cannot convince our long term NATO allies to follow our lead any longer, and exporting jobs instead of goods to spur the stock markets. It is the hope for a higher standard that makes Kerry attractive as a candidate. Sure, there may be more qualified candidates, but our selection process probably eliminated most of them due to the focus on personal foibles instead of professional capabilities.

At this juncture the choices are clear. Bush has to go, and we have to hold Kerry to these higher standards for performance. Jim
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