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post #61 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-25-2004, 08:40 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Situation in Iraq worsens. Mission Unaccomplished Unravels

Quote:
MikeV - 9/24/2004 11:56 PM

...... Most of Iraq is in order. Schools and hospitals are open........
You betcha:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6021927/
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post #62 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-25-2004, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Situation in Iraq worsens. Mission Unaccomplished Unravels

Quote:
MikeV - 9/24/2004 11:56 PM

........Schools and hospitals are open........
Anything you say:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5898089/


Interesting fact in this next article: "Of 2,300 rebuilding projects begun, only 12 have been completed"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5990392/


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post #63 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-25-2004, 09:05 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Nicely done Guage

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Botnst - 9/24/2004 1:19 PM

Iraq and Vietnam have almost nothing in common: Strategically, in terms of culture, in terrain and in coalition tactics. About the only thing in common is that the insurgents are using similar tactics and are taking a terrible beating for it.

Oh yeah, the other thing in common is a whining bunch of candy-asses at home undermining the the will of the voters, which is fair in a democracy, while also underming the will of our armed forces in the face of the enemy. Yeah, that's familiar


To coin a phrase made popular by our involvement in Vietnam, the enemy is us:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6094828/

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0924/p01s02-woiq.html?s=ent

And just like Nam, those who protest are the real enemy:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6086018/

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post #64 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-25-2004, 11:04 AM
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RE: Situation in Iraq worsens. Mission Unaccomplished Unravels

You're right! Anybody that has a problem with killing thousands of innocent people, over 1,000 American soldiers, and being lied to for a war is obviously the enemy.

HAHA! Silly me, I just forgot that we don't live in Nazi Germany.
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post #65 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-25-2004, 11:12 AM
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RE: Situation in Iraq worsens. Mission Unaccomplished Unravels

time to let it go chaps, we all have bad feelings over this but it wont solve anything lets put a positive charge here "its time we leaned to live together" and i say that to ALL faiths
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post #66 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-25-2004, 05:09 PM
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RE: Situation in Iraq worsens. Mission Unaccomplished Unravels

I was watching the news shortly after the “end� of the war and saw some footage of US troops removing the image of the president’s father from the foyer of the Al-Rashid hotel with jack hammers and I thought to myself: this is what the war is all about.

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post #67 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-25-2004, 08:17 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Situation in Iraq worsens. Mission Unaccomplished Unravels

The British Press is giving a much different view of the War in Iraq, far different than the "We're making progress" acid trip our prez is on:


Iraq security picture
BBC World News


Nearly two-and-a-half months after the handover of sovereignty to an interim Iraqi government, Iraqi and multi-national troops are not in control of several major cities in Iraq. Even in the capital, Baghdad, parts of the city are no-go areas for these forces.



SUNNI TRIANGLE

The so-called Sunni Triangle roughly bounded by Ramadi, Samarra and Baghdad has been the centre of the Sunni insurgency.

Coalition forces lost control of Falluja in April and agreed to turn it over to a local force to end an earlier uprising by Sunni militants. That force is reported to have disappeared, and the town is said to have fallen into rebel hands.

Clashes are continuing, with Iraqi and coalition forces attacking militant positions in the city. US air strikes, said by officials to be precise targeted attacks on militant hideouts, have taken a heavy civilian toll.

Islamic militants from outside Iraq are believed to be based in the city.

Coalition forces have also stepped up operations in Ramadi, where rebel forces are said to be largely in control.

Samarra has been an insurgent stronghold since June, but US troops entered on 10 September under a deal with local leaders.



BAGHDAD

Correspondents say the city is far from pacified, and insurgents seem to operate all over the city with relative ease.

Anti-government and anti-American fighters use a number of methods. Suicide bombings continue, taking a heavy civilian Iraqi toll.

Mortar attacks on the Green Zone - a heavily fortified area of Baghdad which houses the HQ of the US forces, many foreign diplomats and Iraqi government offices - have pretty much become routine.

Attacks on US convoys and Iraqi officials are also common.

Iraqi and US patrols rarely venture into Sadr City, a massive Shia slum. Here the Mehdi Army of rebel cleric Moqtada Sadr holds sway.

There has been a recent spate of hostage-taking, with attackers targeting foreign businessmen in affluent areas of the capital.


NORTHERN IRAQ

In early September the US began operations in Talafar, a town which it says is a regular staging post for fighters slipping into Iraq from Syria. Local commanders are said to have lost control of the city.

And Mosul, once seen as a relative success story by the US, has faced increasing violence since the handover of power. A spate of attacks has included several car bombings, a grenade attack which killed the governor and a bombing at a church.

The northern city of Kirkuk has also recently seen a car bombing outside a police academy and sabotage attacks on oil infrastructure in the surrounding area.


NAJAF

A city that is home to Shia Islam's most holy shrine, Najaf has seen two serious uprisings led by rebel cleric Moqtada Sadr since Saddam Hussein was deposed.

The most recent was resolved, not by the Iraqi government or by US forces, but by the intervention of Ayatollah Sistani, the most senior Iraqi Shia cleric.

Most analysts agree that the latest ceasefire leaves Mr Sadr strengthened politically and barely dented militarily. Many of his fighters are believed to have relocated back to Sadr City.

For now, Najaf and the other Shia centres of Karbala and Kut are quiet and under the control of Iraqi police.



SOUTHERN IRAQ

The south of the country, controlled by Iraqi government and UK forces, is perhaps the quietest region. However, the violence in Najaf spilled over further south and the town of al-Amara continues to be a flashpoint.

UK military officials have said that in August 2004, UK forces took more casualties and fired more rounds than during any other month since the invasion of Iraq.

According to the Daily Telegraph newspaper, security in Basra itself is so precarious that UK forces are not patrolling on foot at all, and travel only in armoured vehicles.

Hundreds of British troops are responsible for protecting the oil infrastructure in the area, which comes under regular attack.



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post #68 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Situation in Iraq worsens. Mission Unaccomplished Unravels

For your inspection, the President's Weekly Radio address, followed by a news account of the situation in Iraq. Compare the two, and tell me why someone who doesn't even acknowledge reality should be President:


Transcript: Bush on Iraq's Future
Saturday, September 25, 2004

FOX NEWS

President Bush devoted his weekly radio address Saturday to Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi's visit to Washington. Following is a transcript of Bush's remarks as provided by the White House:

Good morning. This week, I was honored to welcome the Prime Minister of a free and sovereign Iraq to the White House. In less than three months, Prime Minister Allawi and his government have accomplished a great deal, despite persistent violence in parts of Iraq. The enemies of freedom are using suicide bombings, beheadings, and other horrific acts to try to block progress. We are sickened by their atrocities, but we will never be intimidated, and freedom is winning.

We're making steady progress in implementing our five-step plan toward the goal we all want: completing the mission so that Iraq is stable and self-governing, and American troops can come home with the honor they have earned.

The first step was achieved on June 28th, not only on time, but ahead of schedule, when the coalition transferred full sovereignty to a government of Iraqi citizens.

The second step is to help Iraq's new government establish stability and security. Nearly 100,000 fully trained and equipped Iraqi soldiers, police officers, and other security personnel are working today, and the Iraqi government is on track to build a force of over 200,000 security personnel by the end of 2005.

In Najaf and other important areas, Iraqi military forces have performed with skill and success. The government's strategy is to surround and isolate enemy militias, reach out to the local population, and negotiate from a position of strength. Serious problems remain in several cities. Yet, Prime Minister Allawi believes this combination of decisive action and outreach to peaceful citizens is the most effective way to defeat the killers and secure the peace. And America stands with him.

The third step in our plan is to continue improving Iraq's infrastructure. Today, in most of Iraq, children are about to go back to school, parents are going back to work, and new businesses are being opened. Electricity has been restored above pre-war levels. Telephone service has increased dramatically. In the next several months, more than $9 billion will be spent on contracts that will help Iraqis rebuild schools, refurbish hospitals and health clinics, repair bridges, upgrade the electrical grid, and modernize the communication system. Prime Minister Allawi and I agree that the pace of reconstruction can and should be accelerated, and we're working toward that goal.

The fourth step in our plan is to enlist additional international support for Iraq's transition to democracy. The multinational force of some 30 nations continues to help secure a free Iraq, and we are grateful for the service and sacrifice of all. Our coalition is also grateful that the United Nations has reestablished it's mission in Baghdad. We are grateful to the G-8 countries and the European Union for pledging support to the new Iraqi government. We are grateful to the NATO Alliance for help in training Iraqi forces. And we are grateful to many of Iraq's creditors, which have agreed to a further reduction of Iraq's debt.

The fifth and most important step in our plan is to help Iraq conduct free national elections no later than January. An Iraqi electoral commission has already hired personnel, and is making key decisions about election procedures. Just this week, the commission began a public education campaign to inform Iraqis about the process and encourage them to become voters. United Nations electoral advisors are on the ground in Iraq, and Prime Minister Allawi and I have urged the U.N. to send more personnel to help ensure the success of the Iraqi elections.

The war for Iraq's freedom is a fight against some of the most ruthless and brutal men on Earth. In such a struggle, there will be good days and there will be difficult days. But every day, our resolve must remain the same: Iraq, America, and our coalition will stand firm, and Iraq will be free, the world will be more peaceful, and America will be more secure.

Thank you for listening.
************************************************** ***

Iraq violence belies claims of calm, data show
Dozens of daily attacks against U.S. troops, Iraqis and contractors
By Rajiv Chandrasekaran
MSNBC.com


Updated: 2:58 a.m. ET Sept. 26, 2004BAGHDAD, Iraq - Less than four months before planned national elections in Iraq, attacks against U.S. troops, Iraqi security forces and private contractors number in the dozens each day and have spread to parts of the country that had been relatively peaceful, according to statistics compiled by a private security firm working for the U.S. government.

Attacks over the past two weeks have killed more than 250 Iraqis and 29 U.S. military personnel, according to figures released by Iraq's Health Ministry and the Pentagon. A sampling of daily reports produced during that period by Kroll Security International for the U.S. Agency for International Development shows that such attacks typically number about 70 each day. In contrast, 40 to 50 hostile incidents occurred daily during the weeks preceding the handover of political authority to an interim Iraqi government on June 28, according to military officials.

Reports covering seven days in a recent 10-day period depict a nation racked by all manner of insurgent violence, from complex ambushes involving 30 guerrillas north of Baghdad on Monday to children tossing molotov cocktails at a U.S. Army patrol in the capital's Sadr City slum on Wednesday. On maps included in the reports, red circles denoting attacks surround nearly every major city in central, western and northern Iraq, except for Kurdish-controlled areas in the far north. Cities in the Shiite Muslim-dominated south, including several that had undergone a period of relative calm in recent months, also have been hit with near-daily attacks.

Broad, intensifying campaign
In number and scope, the attacks compiled in the Kroll reports suggest a broad and intensifying campaign of insurgent violence that contrasts sharply with assessments by Bush administration officials and Iraq's interim prime minister that the instability is contained to small pockets of the country.

Speaking with President Bush at the White House on Thursday, Prime Minister Ayad Allawi said the security situation in Iraq was "good for elections to be held tomorrow" in 15 of the country's 18 provinces. Elections for a national assembly are scheduled for January.

Allawi told Washington Post reporters and editors on Friday that "for now the only place which is not really that safe is Fallujah, downtown Fallujah. The rest, there are varying degrees. Some — most — of the provinces are really quite safe."

The Kroll reports are based on nonclassified data provided by U.S.-led military forces, the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, private security companies working in Iraq and nongovernmental organizations. The reports, which Kroll has refused to distribute to journalists, were provided to The Post by a person on the list to receive them. They cover the period of Sept. 13 through Sept. 22 — but do not include Sept. 15, 18 or 19, for which reports were not available.

Allawi’s U.S. trip
To many natives and foreigners living in Iraq, the portrait of progress that Allawi painted during his trip to Washington does not depict reality.

After his speech to a joint meeting of Congress on Thursday, Allawi described Baghdad as "very good and safe." In fact, during the period for which security reports were available, the number of attacks in the capital averaged 22 a day.

On Wednesday, there were 28 separate hostile incidents in Baghdad, including five rocket-propelled grenade attacks, six roadside bombings and a suicide bombing in which a car exploded at a National Guard recruiting station, killing at least 11 people and wounding more than 50.

"People are very naive if they think Baghdad is safe," said Falah Ahmed, 26, a cigarette vendor in center city. A nearby tailor, Hisham Nuaimi, 52, said Allawi "is either deceiving himself or the Americans."

"What do you call a city with a car bomb every day?" he said. "Is this the security they are achieving?"

At the same time, however, the city retains an air of normalcy. Motorists clog the roads during rush hour. Markets bustle with shoppers. Restaurants fill up with lunchtime customers.

Hotbeds of violence
In his remarks Thursday, Allawi did not specify the three provinces he deemed insecure, nor did he specify what he meant when he contended that violence in those provinces had been limited to "certain pockets." But since the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003, Baghdad and three of the country's largest and most populous provinces — Anbar in the west, Salahuddin to the north and Babil to the south — have been the principal hotbeds of insurgent violence. And according to the Kroll reports, recent violence appears to have been widespread rather than limited. On Wednesday, for instance, attacks in Salahuddin province occurred in Taji, Balad, Tikrit, Samarra, Baiji, Thuliyah and Dujayl — the seven largest population centers in the area.

Moreover, the security reports indicate that a majority of the hostile acts committed against U.S. and Iraqi security forces over the past two weeks have occurred outside those three provinces. For example, the cities of Amarah in the southern province of Maysan and Samawah in Muthanna province, also in the south, had long been relatively free of violence but are now experiencing frequent attacks, the reports indicate.

There also has been an unusual spike in the number of attacks to the north of the capital. More attacks have been reported in the northern cities of Mosul, Samarra and Tikrit over the past two weeks than in Fallujah and Ramadi, two areas of frequent fighting in Anbar.

Military officials contend, however, that does not mean the restive areas west of Baghdad — the area known as the Sunni Triangle — are no longer insurgent strongholds. The likely explanation, the officials said, is that U.S. Marines stationed in Anbar have sharply reduced their patrolling, making them less vulnerable to roadside attacks. But that strategy, officials say, has allowed insurgent cells to expand in the province.

"There are fewer attacks here because we're out on the road less," an officer at the Marine headquarters near Fallujah said on condition of anonymity. "But you shouldn't conclude from that that things are any safer."

Not limited to anti-U.S. attacks
As news reports have detailed over the past several months, the insurgents' campaign of violence is not limited to U.S. and Iraqi security forces. Iraqi civilians working for the interim government have been killed and kidnapped. So, too, have Iraqis who work as interpreters and truck drivers for the U.S. military. Foreign civilians, even aid workers and fellow Arabs, are regarded as fair game by the insurgents.

The security situation has grown so dire that many of the few remaining nongovernmental aid organizations left in Iraq are making plans to withdraw. The United Nations, which was supposed to help organize the national elections, has just 30 employees in the country, all of whom are quartered in the U.S.-controlled, fortified Green Zone. Foreign journalists, who used to roam the country, are now largely restricted by safety concerns to Baghdad hotels surrounded with concrete walls and barbed wire.

With insurgents targeting not just U.S. troops but seemingly everyone in the country — Iraqi security forces, Iraqis working for the interim government, foreign contractors, journalists, aid workers and others — it is difficult for even ordinary Iraqis to ignore the threat.

"When we leave home, we never know if we're going to return home alive or not," said Mohammed Kadhim, a taxi driver.

© 2004 The Washington Post Company


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post #69 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 03:31 PM
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RE: Situation in Iraq worsens. Mission Unaccomplished Unravels

You know, this thread is like a broken record -- the same thing over and over, except it's said in different ways each time.

I think this thread has "accomplished" its mission. How much more do we need to beat all of this with a dead stick??
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post #70 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-26-2004, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Situation in Iraq worsens. Mission Unaccomplished Unravels

Well, here's something new:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,133565,00.html
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